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re: How Do White People From Alabama Feel About "Selma" Here?
Posted on 1/13/15 at 2:16 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Posted on 1/13/15 at 2:16 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
That's what I'm saying. There are movies about the foundings of America and early struggles. You're looking for a slight where there isn't one.
At the same time, however, surely you'll agree that over the course of any nation's history, minorities usually have had to fight much harder for the same consideration as the majority. It's just a function of society, not saying that y'all didn't have to fight to become the majority.
So Hollywood makes a lotta movies about "white struggle" huh? Comparative to what ... and name some recently if you don't mind. I'm anxious to sit-down and enjoy a good "white struggle" flick.
At the same time, with regard to your so-called, "nation's minorities," ... do you really believe all people with fair skin have been treated better than all people with dark skin? Or that all nations are run by the majority population and it's all divided according to skin color?
Do you really believe that TBird? I mean really? Seriously? IYO everything is and always has been about race and the color of one's skin?
quote:
For civil rights in this country? No. Come on, now
I see. Uhhh huh. I see where you're coming from. Lemme see if I've got this straight. You do not believe that the two-hundred year struggle for independence from Britain, you know - the one that led-up-to and caused the American Revolution, you do not believe it had anything to do with Civil Rights and equality?
At the same time you believe that the American Civil War was all about independence, freedom, civil rights and equality and everything happening in the country since has been about the same ... for blacks. The long hard "black struggle," amirite?
lulz
quote:
You want a movie about the knockout game? And are saying that's tantamount to the civil rights movement? Absurd comparison.
Why? Why the absurd comparison? They make movies about lynchings of black people all the time. People being killed or critically and permanently injured as a result of the knockout game ... same causality, same results, right? Both are racially motivated out of hatred ... both result in cruel deaths. What's so absurd about the comparison TBird?
Lemme ask you this TBird ... have there been more hate crimes perpetrated against blacks by whites in, let's say, the past thirty years, (that would cover your lifetime), or more brutal, sadistic hate crimes perpetrated against whites, by blacks, during the same period of time ... roughly your lifetime TBird.
Now, don't dance around the answer to that question ... answer honestly, do your homework first young sport.
quote:
Lost in your little rant is that most black people do this as well. The media sensationalizes these stories and the American public laps it up.
I'm happy to hear that ... I hope you're right, I truly do.
quote:
This right here is paranoia and hyperbole. IDGAF what you think, race relations in this country continue to improve by leaps and bounds, despite these overblown news stories.
And if anyone, white or black, sees a movie like Selma and concludes that whites are out to get blacks, then they are not a conscientious film watcher and were looking for something to feed such a bias. It's really that simple.
You're a good guy TBird ... you are. But I think you're outta touch with your surroundings. Or either you are intentionally narrowing the subject matter to fit your case. We're not just talking about the movie Selma ... we're talking about all the so-called "black struggle" movies made over just the last, I dunno, again let's just frame it within your lifetime, until now ... and these just scratch the surface:
1997 ... Amistad
1997 ... When We Were Kings
1997 ... Rosewood (I actually rented property outside of Mt Dora to them during filming - on the way to meet advance people for the film in '95, I ran into traffic on the OBT, it was Sammie Smith being arrested.)
1997 ... 4 Little Girls
1997 ... Eve's Bayou
1999 ... The Hurricane
2000 ... Remember the Titans (great movie, I actually know Ron Bass)
2000 ... Bamboozled
2000 ... Men of Honor
2000 ... Considering Reparations: Paying the Debt for Slavery
2001 ... Ali
2001 ... Murder on a Sunday Morning
2002 ... The Rosa Parks Story
2002 ... Two Towns of Jasper
2003 ... The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow
2003 ... Race: The Power of an Illusion
2004 ... Crash
2004 ... Something the Lord Made
2004 ... With All Deliberate Speed
2004 ... Hotel Rwanda
2005 ... Their Eyes Were Watching God
2005 ... The Trials of Darryl Hunt
2006 ... What’s Race Got to Do With It?
2006 ... Akeelah and the Bee
2006 ... Corridor of Shame
2006 ... When The Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts
2007 ... A Girl Like Me
2007 ... Killer of Sheep
2007 ... Talk to Me
2007 ... Resolved
2007 ... All White in Barking
2007 ... Banished: How Whites Drove Blacks Out of Town in America
2007 ... Race to Execution
2008 ... Unnatural Causes
2008 ... What Makes Me White?
2008 ... Traces of the Trade: A Story from the Deep North
2008 ... Tulia, Texas
2008 ... Brick by Brick: A Civil Rights Story
2009 ... Herskovitz at the Heart of Blackness
2011 ... The Help
2012 ... Django Unchained (Great Movie!)
2012 ... Beasts of the Southern Wild
2012 ... Middle of Nowhere
2013 ... Fruitvale Station
2013 ... 12 Years a Slave
2013 ... 42 (Great Movie!)
2013 ... The Butler
2013 ... The Inevitable Defeat of Mister & Pete (Everyone should see this movie)
2014 ... Hidden Colors 3: The Rules of Racism
2014 ... Dear White People
2014 ... Selma
The last of which has already been admitted as a hoax, a lie, an untruth ... by the writer/producer/director!
Continued ...
2
Posted on 1/13/15 at 2:16 pm to scrooster
... continued from above.
... it's called "brainwashing." It's called Social Manipulation through Modern Film. Say it enough and people will begin to believe it. What you think about, you do ... what you do, you become.
And now, get this, they're going to remake "Roots" which was a lie from the get-go and perhaps the genesis for all racially-inclined false narratives since ... well, I'll use direct quotes:
Thankfully, not all blacks are loving all the slave movies and black struggle/suffrage movies ...
HuffPo's Hermene Hartman: Twelve Years a Slave: "I Am Sick of the Slave Movies"
Amen sister.
I did get a kick outta Quentin Tarantino though, when he said "Django was more historically correct than Alex Haley's Roots ever was."
No, actually I haven't TBird. But there are people out there on both sides of their extremes who are getting close to going-off the deep end ... you're not paying attention if you truly believe that hyperbole. And as I stated earlier, sooner or later it's all going to get pushed over the edge and it will not end well.
I would love to see more blacks step forward and condemn the rioting and burning. You know, like we want Muslims to step forward and condemn terrorist attacks. You know, like so many of us whites stepped forward in the 60s to help end so much of the racist bullshite back then.
When do you suppose that's going to happen TBird. When do you think someone is going to bitch slap that fricktard Al Sharpton - or even jump in his face and tell him to stfu?
Instead you've got this idiot president and AG inviting Sharpton to the Whitehouse.
Good God ... can you imagine if Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon had invited the Grand Dragon of the KKK to the White House? Because that's the moral equivalent ... yet you don't see it from our side. Sharpton is an agitator, an opportunist and an extortionist. And he DA man among blacks!
Amirite?
You're a good guy TBird ... but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining friend. I've seen what the whole so-called "War on Poverty" has done to this country and it ain't working-out so well. When I was young and dumb I thought it was going to be great - it would make everyone better - our country would be unbeatable in every phase of our existence.
Instead it's dragged us all down.
... it's called "brainwashing." It's called Social Manipulation through Modern Film. Say it enough and people will begin to believe it. What you think about, you do ... what you do, you become.
And now, get this, they're going to remake "Roots" which was a lie from the get-go and perhaps the genesis for all racially-inclined false narratives since ... well, I'll use direct quotes:
quote:
From the NY Post: LINK
More than a decade later, most people remain totally unaware of the troubling issues behind “Roots” — or simply don’t want to hear that this still-acclaimed work was essentially a fake.
That view is shared even by such noted African-American historians as Harvard’s Henry Louis Gates, a Haley friend who conceded that it’s time to “speak candidly” and admit that “it’s highly unlikely that Alex actually found the village from whence his ancestors sprang,” adding that it was not “strict historical scholarship.” The late John Henrik Clarke, dean of Afrocentrist scholars, said he “cried real tears when I realized that Haley was less than authentic.”
Genealogists, eager to retrace the historical steps Haley claimed he took in his 12-year search for his family heritage, discovered this early on: Documents didn’t match any information Haley cited; the dates were all wrong and so was the supposed slave lineage. Elizabeth Shown Mills, editor of the National Genealogical Society Quarterly, went so far as to denounce Haley’s “subterfuge.”
Thankfully, not all blacks are loving all the slave movies and black struggle/suffrage movies ...
HuffPo's Hermene Hartman: Twelve Years a Slave: "I Am Sick of the Slave Movies"
Amen sister.
I did get a kick outta Quentin Tarantino though, when he said "Django was more historically correct than Alex Haley's Roots ever was."
quote:
You've gone way off the deep end here, old sport.
No, actually I haven't TBird. But there are people out there on both sides of their extremes who are getting close to going-off the deep end ... you're not paying attention if you truly believe that hyperbole. And as I stated earlier, sooner or later it's all going to get pushed over the edge and it will not end well.
I would love to see more blacks step forward and condemn the rioting and burning. You know, like we want Muslims to step forward and condemn terrorist attacks. You know, like so many of us whites stepped forward in the 60s to help end so much of the racist bullshite back then.
When do you suppose that's going to happen TBird. When do you think someone is going to bitch slap that fricktard Al Sharpton - or even jump in his face and tell him to stfu?
Instead you've got this idiot president and AG inviting Sharpton to the Whitehouse.
Good God ... can you imagine if Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon had invited the Grand Dragon of the KKK to the White House? Because that's the moral equivalent ... yet you don't see it from our side. Sharpton is an agitator, an opportunist and an extortionist. And he DA man among blacks!
Amirite?
You're a good guy TBird ... but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining friend. I've seen what the whole so-called "War on Poverty" has done to this country and it ain't working-out so well. When I was young and dumb I thought it was going to be great - it would make everyone better - our country would be unbeatable in every phase of our existence.
Instead it's dragged us all down.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 2:34 pm to scrooster
quote:
Hollywood makes a lotta movies about "white struggle" huh?
Just got through saying that a nation's majority doesn't have to struggle for civil rights like minorities do. That's common sense.
quote:
do you really believe all people with fair skin have been treated better than all people with dark skin?
Huh? Never said that. Minorities typically have had to struggle for civil rights.
quote:
Or that all nations are run by the majority population
They typically are, save for when the minority is of the conquering variety.
quote:
IYO everything is and always has been about race and the color of one's skin?
You're ranting and putting words in my mouth, man. Settle down.
quote:
You do not believe that the two-hundred year struggle for independence from Britain, you know - the one that led-up-to and caused the American Revolution, you do not believe it had anything to do with Civil Rights and equality?
Did not say that. Yes, America had to struggle for independence from Britain. I said that earlier.
Once we as a nation gained said independence, it did not matriculate to the minorities until well after the fact. Ergo, the civil rights movement.
quote:
At the same time you believe that the American Civil War was all about independence, freedom, civil rights and equality and everything happening in the country since has been about the same ... for blacks. The long hard "black struggle," amirite?
You are not right--you are ranting and putting words in my mouth again.
quote:
They make movies about lynchings of black people all the time.
Lynchings happened during the CRM, but that's not what said movies are about. Those things are ancillary to the story and illustrative of the tensions of the time.
quote:
What's so absurd about the comparison TBird?
See above.
quote:
I think you're outta touch with your surroundings.
You're incorrect.
quote:
you are intentionally narrowing the subject matter to fit your case.
No, that's what YOU are doing, sir.
quote:
We're not just talking about the movie Selma ... we're talking about all the so-called "black struggle" movies
Your problem is that you view all these movies as having the same premise. These are all different stories, and couched in different ways--just like movies dealing with other eras of American and world history. Just like other genres that revisit the same time periods or future periods.
42 is not The Butler is not Ali is not Selma. Your own proclivity to paint these films with such a broad brush is the source of your consternation.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 2:42 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Bond is a white guy
Not necessarily. He is a British agent
Splitting hairs.. Fleming based Bond off himself, having been in Naval Intelligence during WWII.
quote:
Fleming "may have written fiction, but 95% of it was based on fact that had been filtered through the prism of his imagination and then polished up a bit".
Posted on 1/13/15 at 2:52 pm to scrooster
quote:
More than a decade later, most people remain totally unaware of the troubling issues behind “Roots” — or simply don’t want to hear that this still-acclaimed work was essentially a fake.
That view is shared even by such noted African-American historians as Harvard’s Henry Louis Gates, a Haley friend who conceded that it’s time to “speak candidly” and admit that “it’s highly unlikely that Alex actually found the village from whence his ancestors sprang,” adding that it was not “strict historical scholarship.” The late John Henrik Clarke, dean of Afrocentrist scholars, said he “cried real tears when I realized that Haley was less than authentic.”
Genealogists, eager to retrace the historical steps Haley claimed he took in his 12-year search for his family heritage, discovered this early on: Documents didn’t match any information Haley cited; the dates were all wrong and so was the supposed slave lineage. Elizabeth Shown Mills, editor of the National Genealogical Society Quarterly, went so far as to denounce Haley’s “subterfuge.”
The most compelling thing about Roots was the portrayal of the middle passage and slave trade, not the veracity of the genealogy. How many movies today take liberal artistic license with historical data? This is kind of a superfluous point you're arguing.
quote:
not all blacks are loving all the slave movies and black struggle/suffrage movies
Also not a revelation. No demographic is going to love every movie featuring them 100%. Not even close. I don't even like all black struggle movies. Loved The Help. Hated The Butler. Have no desire to see Selma. The list goes on.
quote:
you're not paying attention if you truly believe that hyperbole
You're the main one who has engaged in hyperbole in this thread, scrooster.
quote:
sooner or later it's all going to get pushed over the edge and it will not end well.
Case in point. You make this claim based on hollywood movies. That's asinine.
quote:
I would love to see more blacks step forward and condemn the rioting and burning.
PLENTY of us have. Myself included. Liberal black people included. We just don't have the bully pulpit of a media-aided Sharpton or Jackson, while more sane spokespeople like Ben Carson get dismissed as fringe lunatics.
quote:
When do you suppose that's going to happen TBird. When do you think someone is going to bitch slap that fricktard Al Sharpton - or even jump in his face and tell him to stfu?
I met Sharpton when he visited TAMU while I was a student and told him to his face that I did not agree with a word he was saying. Moreover, more blacks I know than not don't regard him or Jackson as de facto mouthpieces. That you believe such means that you have swallowed more sensationalist bs than anything.
quote:
Instead you've got this idiot president and AG inviting Sharpton to the Whitehouse.
Good God ... can you imagine if Lyndon Johnson or Richard Nixon had invited the Grand Dragon of the KKK to the White House? Because that's the moral equivalent ... yet you don't see it from our side. Sharpton is an agitator, an opportunist and an extortionist. And he DA man among blacks!
Amirite?
No, this is you raving again. Cut it the frick out. Jesus Christ, scrooster, you're coming unhinged over this.
We're talking about MOVIES, and you've gone off the deep end (again), frothing at the mouth at a self-proclaimed spokesperson who is an idiot.
quote:
You're a good guy TBird ... but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining friend.
No, Imma piss on your leg and call it the SC Statehosue
quote:
Instead it's dragged us all down.
Fittingly, a final bit of hyperbole. Regardless of how you feel about the POTUS, Sharpton, Hollywood, et al, the bottom line is that race relations in this country have NEVER been better than they are RIGHT NOW. Does that mean there are no problems? No.
But goddammit, give me 2015 over 1960. And if you tell me it was actually better then, then you are the one pissing on my leg and calling it precipitation.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 3:14 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
42 is not The Butler is not Ali is not Selma. Your own proclivity to paint these films with such a broad brush is the source of your consternation.
Wait ... wut?
All four of those movies do not deal, heavily, with the presence of blatant racism during the time periods from which they endeavor to reflect?
I mean the whole "racist raping bad white man narrative" is not contained within all four of those movies?
42 ... did it deal with how great a ballplayer Jackie Robinson was, or was it more about his contrary independent nature and how he had to overcome racism within the game itself? I mean "n" word this and "n" word that and even during one streak, when the Pittsburgh manager was taunting Jackie and calling him names ... he said the "n" word 26 times within 60 seconds.
The Butler ... Macon, Georgia, white man raping Cecil's mother. His father confronts evil white man and is shot dead ... leaving the mother mute. Nah, none of that old evil white man shite stirring there by gosh. That's all before the sit-in, the arse beatings by the KKK, the Selma thing, evil Richard Nixon gonna suppress the blacks ... lulz. The fricking shite people fall-for is just mind-blowing some times. And people actually believe the shite they see on the big screen and try to argue historical facts using these horseshite movies!
Ali ... again, was it more about Ali and his skills and hard work ethic, or about "black struggle" against the evil white man?
Selma ... and now for this horseshite of a movie, Selma. lulz ... I mean it's just amazing to me that the writer/director can come-out and admit she made half the shite up ... and then turn around and defend it as "full of beautiful positives." And now black people are running to her defense telling her not to bow to the attackers ... that the movie is an exact account of what happened. Are you reading the tweets?!? The writer/director has admitted that the movie contains a false narrative, but the people seeing the movie are telling her the movie is historically accurate!
Many blacks have done this to themselves IMHO. It's like playing with a Ouija Board. You call on the demons and then open your mind and hear to them long enough ... and eventually they are going to oblige you and let themselves in. Then you're fricked.
Again I'll say, there needs to be more black leaders stepping forward and stopping the false narratives.
Everything is not about ethnicity ... not to all the races except one apparently ... blacks. The rest of us out here, the we Scots and Irish, the Italians, the Chinese and Koreans and Japanese, the Mexicans and Brazilians and French ... none of us give a flying frick about ethnicity other than the normal biases that we accept and endure and overcome that have been part of humanity since the beginning of time ... and it's never going to end.
But blacks, now blacks ... so many of them just keep-on milking it with the movies and TV shows which spurs the hatred which leads to the protests and the burning building and the looting and thieving and ... well, when will it change TBird, tell me please, because I trust you.
May I tell my children, and now my grandchildren, that the bullshite is gonna end soon? In their lifetimes? That some day soon there will not be five flicks a year stirring the shite pot that is so-called unfair treatment of blacks in today's society?
Posted on 1/13/15 at 3:29 pm to scrooster
quote:
All four of those movies do not deal, heavily, with the presence of blatant racism during the time periods from which they endeavor to reflect?
I'm saying they're not all the same story just because they're set in that time period.
And I love how you act like there were no redeeming white figures in any of those films
Or that the sole purpose was white demonization. That says more about you than anything. Most folks view such stories as the triumph of the human spirit over difficult circumstances. quote:
Again I'll say, there needs to be more black leaders stepping forward
frick that. We do NOT need any more self-proclaimed "leaders" stepping forward and having the temerity to assume that they speak for black people as one homogenous mass. Black people come from an array of backgrounds now, and that trend will continue to proliferate at an ever-increasing rate. Calling for more black leaders is an outdated trope.
quote:
stopping the false narratives.
What false narrative was in 42? Jackie Robinson DID have to overcome monumental opposition to play where he eventually did.
Ali was a cultural phenomenon, whether you like it or not.
And IDGAF about Selma. Why the frick would I read Selma-related tweets?
quote:
Everything is not about ethnicity ... not to all the races except one apparently ... blacks.
bullshite, and shame on you for this presumption.
quote:
But blacks, now blacks ... so many of them just keep-on milking it with the movies and TV shows
Again, shame on you.
quote:
which spurs the hatred which leads to the protests and the burning building and the looting and thieving and ... well, when will it change TBird, tell me please, because I trust you.
First of all, don't patronize me.
Secondly, don't insult my intelligence. Saying movies/tv shows lead to hatred and violence and protests and criminal activity is as asinine as people who blame violent video games for crime.
Criminals commit crimes. Period. Stop trying to use movies as a scapegoat. The overwhelming majority of folks who see these films react to them like normal peope--usually relief/thankfulness that the status quo changed, and resolve to keep moving forward so as not to slip back into that quagmire. Listening to you rave, you'd think that there were race riots outside every theater showing a black struggle type film. Your line of thinking is preposterous.
And the ultimate point that you keep purposely dodging is that in spite of all this bleak picture you paint because of cinema (again, laughable), RACE RELATIONS HAVE NEVER BEEN BETTER. PERIOD.
This post was edited on 1/13/15 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 1/13/15 at 4:14 pm to Alahunter
quote:
Splitting hairs.. Fleming based Bond off himself, having been in Naval Intelligence during WWII.
Sigmund Georgievich Rosenblum, aka Sidney Reilly, was the real-life spy on whom Fleming based his fictional James Bond.
He made Bond a former Naval Intelligence Officer in an effort to glorify how former MOS as a breeding ground for MI6 operatives, that part is true.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 5:14 pm to TbirdSpur2010
There you go TBird ... accusing me of ranting and raving. Slinging big words at me like "patronize" and then you go and try to white guilt me with the "shame" thing.
Meant no disrespect ... thought we could have a conversation without you taking it personally and becoming obstinate.
Oh, errrr, and btw ... you say blacks need no role models and leaders speaking out for what's right? Well, okay, you're entitled to your opinion. In the meantime, while you're still in the process of learning something about life ... check out some of these fine people, (but please refrain from referring to them as Uncle Toms or traitors to the cause if you will.)
https://conservativeblackchick.com/
https://africanamericanconservatives.com/
https://www.nbra.info/
You say race relations have never been better in this country than they are right now? Huh ... how about that. LINK
.... and do me one favor TBird.
Learn, and come to know, the difference between patronizing someone, or being patronized, verses a show of honest respect and appreciation ... dumbass.
I've been facetious with you, but not the least bit patronizing.
Anyway, if you refuse to see my side of the debate by now - you never will. So let's move on and I'll just keep my fingers crossed for you as you grow older and wiser. Remember me fondly, will you?
ETA: Pic
Meant no disrespect ... thought we could have a conversation without you taking it personally and becoming obstinate.
Oh, errrr, and btw ... you say blacks need no role models and leaders speaking out for what's right? Well, okay, you're entitled to your opinion. In the meantime, while you're still in the process of learning something about life ... check out some of these fine people, (but please refrain from referring to them as Uncle Toms or traitors to the cause if you will.)
https://conservativeblackchick.com/
https://africanamericanconservatives.com/
https://www.nbra.info/
You say race relations have never been better in this country than they are right now? Huh ... how about that. LINK
.... and do me one favor TBird.
Learn, and come to know, the difference between patronizing someone, or being patronized, verses a show of honest respect and appreciation ... dumbass.
I've been facetious with you, but not the least bit patronizing.
Anyway, if you refuse to see my side of the debate by now - you never will. So let's move on and I'll just keep my fingers crossed for you as you grow older and wiser. Remember me fondly, will you?
ETA: Pic
This post was edited on 1/13/15 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 1/13/15 at 9:42 pm to diddydirtyAubie
quote:
DGAF. I haven't done shite to black people.
This
Posted on 1/13/15 at 9:46 pm to AlaTiger
I feel like I missed out on this thread.
For the record, I saw Selma and thought it was great. Not sure why some people are so riled up by it. I couldn't care less about the political motivations of the director or the fact that Oprah was in it, I was entertained.
For the record, I saw Selma and thought it was great. Not sure why some people are so riled up by it. I couldn't care less about the political motivations of the director or the fact that Oprah was in it, I was entertained.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 9:59 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
The South does not have race riots anymore. That is significant, IMO.
Actually, excluding Miami in the 1980's, there has never been a race riot in the south. The only violence that occurred was from authorities trying to stop peaceful protests. All of the violent race riots in the 1960's were in the northeast and California (Boston, Watts, etc.)
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:28 pm to Ramblin Wreck
quote:
Actually, excluding Miami in the 1980's, there has never been a race riot in the south. The only violence that occurred was from authorities trying to stop peaceful protests. All of the violent race riots in the 1960's were in the northeast and California (Boston, Watts, etc.)
Ummmm ... I remember this like it was yesterday. And yeah, they rioted and got shot ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangeburg_massacre
You don't bring that rioting crap to SC unless you are asking to be massacred. Protest peacefully and you can do it all day long. Start setting fires and chucking bricks and your sorry arse is gonna get shot.
https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012/09/21/orangeburg-massacre-stirs-debate-44-years-later/57817944/1
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