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re: High School Education

Posted on 5/12/15 at 2:46 pm to
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134026 posts
Posted on 5/12/15 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

I judge homeschooled kids too. #awkward #sociallyinept #whitebread #fundies


That does it.

Fight me irl.

Was all fun and games till you had to go and insult WonderBread like that
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 2:47 pm
Posted by CatFan81
Decatur, GA
Member since May 2009
47188 posts
Posted on 5/12/15 at 2:49 pm to
Posted by Aubie Spr96
lolwut?
Member since Dec 2009
41104 posts
Posted on 5/12/15 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

Have you tried to enroll him in the Honors/AP program, or do they not have them in your school system? I can promise you that your student would be challenged in the AP program of our local school. Most kids who do AP in our school system here find their first two years of college extremely easy.


He was in one or two Honors classes this year. Honestly, we didn't want to burn him out (he's just a freshman). I don't remember off hand what all he signed up for next year. I'll have to look.
Posted by hogfly
Fayetteville, AR
Member since May 2014
4640 posts
Posted on 5/12/15 at 3:16 pm to
quote:

He was in one or two Honors classes this year. Honestly, we didn't want to burn him out (he's just a freshman). I don't remember off hand what all he signed up for next year. I'll have to look.


I'll be honest. The AP/Honors program is the way to go in public education, if the kid can hack it. Some of that has to do with the teachers who teach honors as they have higher standards and tend to be more knowledgeable in their curriculum because their students are genuinely challenging and curious about the subject. Some of that has to do with the curriculum which is obviously more difficult. In my opinion, though, the main reason that the Honors/AP program is superior has more to do with the peer group than anything else. You're around people who care about school and are motivated. They know that an education will get them places. They challenge each other and compete against each other academically. They are fighting to get into good schools and get good scholarships. There's really no substitute for being immersed in that kind of environment. That being said, it can also be extremely daunting and demotivating for students who don't succeed in that environment.
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 3:17 pm
Posted by Person of interest
The Hill
Member since Jan 2014
1786 posts
Posted on 5/12/15 at 3:27 pm to
Sounds like German style schools. They don't have high school, but after fourth grade you choose your secondary school. They are up to 9, 10 or 12 grades depending on what you pick.


Hauptschule

The Hauptschule (grades 5-9) teaches the same subjects as the Realschule and Gymnasium, but at a slower pace and with some vocational-oriented courses. It leads to part-time enrollment in a vocational school combined with apprenticeship training until the age of 18.

Realschule

The Realschule (grades 5-10 in most states) leads to part-time vocational schools and higher vocational schools. It is now possible for students with high academic achievement at the Realschule to switch to a Gymnasium on graduation.

Gymnasium

The Gymnasium leads to a diploma called the Abitur and prepares students for university study or for a dual academic and vocational credential. The most common education tracks offered by the standard Gymnasium are classical language, modern language, and mathematics and natural science. In recent years many States have changed the curriculum so students can get the "Abi" at the end of the 12th grade. Other States are making the transition but may still require a 13th grade.



The School Day

German students at public schools attend school in the morning. Classes normally start between 7:30 and 8:15 a.m. and can end between 12 noon and 1:30 p.m. Class periods are normally 45 minutes long with a short break in between. There is no provision for serving lunch. There can be a lot of homework and heavy emphasis on the "three Rs" - reading, writing and aRithmatic. The curriculum expands as students move up from Grundschule and depends on which of the three secondary schools they attend.

The School Year

The school year consists of two semesters and normally starts around the middle to end of August. There are longer breaks at Christmas and in the summer. Shorter breaks are around Easter and in autumn. There is no school on public holidays. The Christmas break is usually 2 weeks and the summer break is about 6 weeks. The exact dates of the various vacations and breaks are set by the individual Länder.


LINK
Posted by Aubie Spr96
lolwut?
Member since Dec 2009
41104 posts
Posted on 5/12/15 at 4:03 pm to
One honors class this year and two next year (Spanish and History). Guess it's a balancing act between burn out and boredom.
Posted by Bama323_15
Member since Jan 2013
2100 posts
Posted on 5/12/15 at 10:29 pm to
Many schools still focus on "closing the gap", that is they still feel their #1 priority is to raise the test scores of the lowest students to a passing rate on the current standardized test. Advanced students and even middle of the road students are usually already at the passing point and these groups tend to be neglected.

I know different accountability measures have been put in place to try and rectify this, but when NCLB went into effect our advanced students really took a hit, especially in schools were enrollment numbers limited the number of advanced class offerings, etc.

So it is not surprising a good student can quickly complete work targeted toward our lowest performing students.


FYI, if you want to make your ISS a better deterrent, consider these suggestions from a former alternative school director/principal.

1. Keep plenty of skill building work for your students...always keep them writing...rather than just sitting/sleeping when they have finished classwork. (ex. commonly misspelled words, ACT/SAT vocabulary reviews, multiplication facts, maybe even writing a list of Spanish words and their translation, etc.)

2. Play music all day. (classical, opera, classic bluegrass, Barney sing-a-longs, the Wiggles, audio books etc. Whatever you can find on youtube)

3. Have a daily grading system/report that students sign off each day. If students grade out less than 80% any day they have to repeat the day)

4. I also created my own homework students had to do each night and it was 1 of the items on their daily grading report...took about 40 minutes per night. My goal was to make them to prefer to stay in their classroom with their teachers.

Out of 200 or so students per year that visited me, only 4 or 5 would try serious resistance. Often these students would turn a 5 to 10 day placement into a 30 day placement since they failed to show progress while placed with me.

Posted by ChEgrad
Member since Nov 2012
3262 posts
Posted on 5/12/15 at 10:59 pm to
quote:

Emphasis on self learning with a teacher being there to help with difficult concepts(math, science, etc)


Students from Asia who are taught the old fashioned way of rote memorization/lectures (not the self taught/new-fangled methods espoused in the U.S. Educational system today) do better on the international tests. Not completely sure what this means and don't know if that inhibits creativity which is apparently lacking in China and Japan to a certain degree. I think students from the past actually learned math (at least) better than students of today.
Posted by bamafan1001
Member since Jun 2011
15783 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 8:12 am to
quote:

Bama323_15


Thanks for the reply. I like all the suggestions for ISS. Unfortunately, our administration is extremely weak when it comes to discipline. I have recommended kids have additional days of ISS but they ignored me. I will write kids up for not following my assignments or for outright defiance and they will not suspend them or send them home, they will just give them a "talk" and send them back.

If I had the authority to give students additional days of ISS, my days would be a lot easier.
Posted by bamafan1001
Member since Jun 2011
15783 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 8:20 am to
quote:

Students from Asia

quote:

do better on

quote:

tests



Asians have higher IQs. Its just reality.

quote:

(not the self taught/new-fangled methods espoused in the U.S. Educational system today)


My argument is that we need to go to these systems which means we aren't using them(at least where im at)
Posted by Wtodd
Tampa, FL
Member since Oct 2013
67482 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 8:25 am to
quote:

Asians have higher IQs. Its just reality

Asians actually give a shite about education.
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 8:36 am to
quote:

Play music all day


Get kids involved in music programs. The stats are out there that kids gain critical skills that lead to higher IQ's later. Listening to music is great. Playing is even better.

Reading also helps. Fiction or non-fiction, keep kids reading.
Posted by bamafan1001
Member since Jun 2011
15783 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 8:39 am to
quote:

Asians actually give a shite about education.


And have higher IQs
Posted by hogfly
Fayetteville, AR
Member since May 2014
4640 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 8:40 am to
quote:

Students from Asia who are taught the old fashioned way of rote memorization/lectures (not the self taught/new-fangled methods espoused in the U.S. Educational system today) do better on the international tests. Not completely sure what this means and don't know if that inhibits creativity which is apparently lacking in China and Japan to a certain degree. I think students from the past actually learned math (at least) better than students of today.


That's really interesting, as most of the "new" Common Core curriculum is "new fangled" and based on Singapore math pedagogical techniques because their math scores are insanely high.

Singapore Math Wiki

Posted by Wtodd
Tampa, FL
Member since Oct 2013
67482 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 8:42 am to
quote:

bamafan1001

I included your IQ comment in my post but actually giving a shite about education trumps IQ. You can have the highest IQ out there but if you don't care or give a shite, then it doesn't matter. ONTH you can have a 120 IQ, really care about education and the sky's the limit.
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46507 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 9:17 am to
quote:

Not all classes are like this. Especially Honors or AP classes. Maybe in the class where the student you observed is in. But certainly not all.


AP classes are essentially junior college classes often taught by underqualified educators. AP classes are stupid easy for the kinds of people who take them, given these are almost always your future university students.

The sad thing is AP should be the minimum, not the maximum. Whenever I had to take a HS elective with regulars students I found myself wondering how they dressed themselves in the morning. Most if those kids had no business in an academic setting, they should have been funneled into trade schools in order to acquire useful job skills.

There are only three kinds of kids who struggle in HS: Those who don't care, those with genuine learning deficiencies and idiots. The majority fall into the first and last group.
This post was edited on 5/13/15 at 9:19 am
Posted by bamafan1001
Member since Jun 2011
15783 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 9:42 am to
quote:

The sad thing is AP should be the minimum, not the maximum.


2nded

quote:

There are only three kinds of kids who struggle in HS: Those who don't care, those with genuine learning deficiencies and idiots. The majority fall into the first and last group.


2nded
Posted by hogfly
Fayetteville, AR
Member since May 2014
4640 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 11:23 am to
quote:


AP classes are essentially junior college classes often taught by underqualified educators. AP classes are stupid easy for the kinds of people who take them, given these are almost always your future university students.


Eh. I wouldn't say that's necessarily the case everywhere, though I agree with most of the rest of your post. Maybe it's because I live in a college town, but most of the AP teachers in our high school could pretty much be professors in their subject, and the courses are downright brutal (other than AP Human Geography and AP Psychology which are both known as "easy" AP courses).

I definitely agree with the last of your post, though. Apathy is the biggest issue facing education.
Posted by finestfirst79
Vicksburg, Mississippi
Member since Nov 2012
11646 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 1:21 pm to
Good post, and I agree with all of that. Old man shaking his fist at clouds here, but another and very different problem I was only recently introduced to is the "everybody gets a trophy" nonsense. I recently went to nephew's HS awards ceremony. They gave out awards for, among other things, the best students in "Honors Ceramics" and "Poetry Out Loud". I have a mental picture of what "Poetry Out Loud" is about, but it's unfathomable to me that there is such a class as "Honors Ceramics". And then every stinkin' member of the Key Club got an award for, you guessed it, being a member of the Key Club. Hours of this crap, but those were the most outlandlish I can remember.

As far as I know this is a recent phenomenon. Our youngest graduated in '09 and her class didn't do anything like this nonsense, nor did the 2 older kids' classes.

And get off my lawn.
Posted by hogfly
Fayetteville, AR
Member since May 2014
4640 posts
Posted on 5/13/15 at 1:36 pm to


I mean, Honors Ceramics is just a pottery class that's probably "honors" because it's designed for kids who are actually serious about pottery and art instead of the goofs that are taking it as the easy way to get their fine art credit.

Poetry Out Loud is a national competition that involves memorizing and reciting poetry. A lot of schools have competitions within the school and select a winner. That student then goes on to compete at the regional level. Then state level. Then national level, provided they keep winning. Here's a video of the 2015 National Champion if you want to watch it.

But don't let me get in the way of a good "get off my lawn" rant. I do agree with your comments about the everyone's a winner philosophy, though.

I was on the other end of that recently at our Wrestling Team's End of Year Banquet. My 10 and 7 year old both wrestle. My 10 year old is special needs and doesn't actually compete, but he has practiced every single practice and works hard. Anyway, neither of them got an award, and there were other kids who racked up multiple awards. I admit that I was a little pissed off at the end of the banquet and my wife was extremely pissed off. I ended up bringing up the fact that wrestling isn't one of those sports where everyone gets an awards and that it's good for our kids to experience that. Plus it will mean so much more when they do get an award from the team. I still wish they'd have given my special needs son some kind of "spirit" award as it would have made his day.
This post was edited on 5/13/15 at 1:41 pm
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