Started By
Message
High School Education
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:05 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:05 am
So I work as an in-school suspension monitor as my day job(not glamorous I know). One particular kid I have is a senior who due to breaking a serious rule must finish the rest of his last semester in in-school suspension every day. His teachers will send all of his work and tests that he needs to do and he will complete them in here.
What ive noticed with him(and countless other kids Ive had in here) is that he finishes all of his day's work in about an hour to an hour and a half tops. This is good work, that he does well on. He actually missed three days due to being "sick" and when he came back, finished all his back work in about two hours. He has also taken two tests which he has done well on.
I think yall know where im going with this: public school as it is set up now is not optimal for, id argue, a majority of students.
Students do not need to go to every class for an hour 5x/wk. It is completely inefficient and actually teaches inefficiency to students. SOME kids do need extra help but why must a majority of kids need two hours at the most per subject per week.
Are you tired of your kids going to school to do busy work worksheets and watching Finding Nemo and Twilight for the 100th time? So are the kids! They have to intentionally be slow finishing work to avoid boredom.
Why do kids still have homework despite all these hours in school? Because there is no sense of urgency to the learning process. Why take any measure to work ahead and learn material on your own accord when you know you will still have to suffer through the teacher painstakingly spelling it all out for you every day.
Solutions:
-Shorten school day for successful kids
-Structure school to allow for kids to move on to the next level of a subject once they show they have mastered the material(tough, repeatable exams, must meet an higher standard than normal to move on early)
-Flexible curriculum
-Emphasis on self learning with a teacher being there to help with difficult concepts(math, science, etc)
-More occupational based courses and partnership with businesses for apprenticeships
Thoughts?
What ive noticed with him(and countless other kids Ive had in here) is that he finishes all of his day's work in about an hour to an hour and a half tops. This is good work, that he does well on. He actually missed three days due to being "sick" and when he came back, finished all his back work in about two hours. He has also taken two tests which he has done well on.
I think yall know where im going with this: public school as it is set up now is not optimal for, id argue, a majority of students.
Students do not need to go to every class for an hour 5x/wk. It is completely inefficient and actually teaches inefficiency to students. SOME kids do need extra help but why must a majority of kids need two hours at the most per subject per week.
Are you tired of your kids going to school to do busy work worksheets and watching Finding Nemo and Twilight for the 100th time? So are the kids! They have to intentionally be slow finishing work to avoid boredom.
Why do kids still have homework despite all these hours in school? Because there is no sense of urgency to the learning process. Why take any measure to work ahead and learn material on your own accord when you know you will still have to suffer through the teacher painstakingly spelling it all out for you every day.
Solutions:
-Shorten school day for successful kids
-Structure school to allow for kids to move on to the next level of a subject once they show they have mastered the material(tough, repeatable exams, must meet an higher standard than normal to move on early)
-Flexible curriculum
-Emphasis on self learning with a teacher being there to help with difficult concepts(math, science, etc)
-More occupational based courses and partnership with businesses for apprenticeships
Thoughts?
15
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:15 am to bamafan1001
Yeah; being in class all day teaches the kids some discipline....like when you're at work all day and some days you don't have a lot to do.
Also it teaches them (or should) to obey the orders of those above you; like your parents, boss, wife (
), teachers, etc.
I agree with this
Also it teaches them (or should) to obey the orders of those above you; like your parents, boss, wife (
), teachers, etc. quote:
More occupational based courses and partnership with businesses for apprenticeships
I agree with this
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 11:16 am
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:19 am to bamafan1001
I've noticed a movement back towards trades in high school, which I think is a good thing. Better to be a plumber/electrician with certifications than a fry cook with a master's degree in Philosophy.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:22 am to Wtodd
quote:
Yeah; being in class all day teaches the kids some discipline
discipline...or inefficiency?
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:35 am to bamafan1001
quote:
-Shorten school day for successful kids
-Structure school to allow for kids to move on to the next level of a subject once they show they have mastered the material(tough, repeatable exams, must meet an higher standard than normal to move on early)
-Flexible curriculum
-Emphasis on self learning with a teacher being there to help with difficult concepts(math, science, etc)
-More occupational based courses and partnership with businesses for apprenticeships
Couple things:
Teachers at the lower grade levels don't see the point of homework either; 9 times out of 10 the parents do it anyway.
90% of the school day is taken up on just 10% of the students.
Public schools are geared for the lowest common denominator.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 11:52 am to cokebottleag
quote:
90% of the school day is taken up on just 10% of the students. Public schools are geared for the lowest common denominator.
This is absolutely the problem.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:07 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
Public schools are geared for the lowest common denominator.
Yep. He who underachieves gets the most attention. I think the subject in the OP is probably a bored overachiever who would do extremely well in a challenging school.
We seem to have become a society that is intent on "lifting up" the underprivileged and mentally handicapped at the extreme expense of the gifted.
Thankfully, Lexington has a couple of public schools for the gifted student. I think all public school distracts should search out and focus more on those kids who show exceptional talents in academic areas. Most other first world societies do it.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:15 pm to bamafan1001
There really should be a "Life" class focused on job interviews, Roth IRAs, W-2s, explaining FAFSA, 401ks and car insurance. Critical things to adult living that we barely get a hint of in formal education.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:18 pm to bamafan1001
I agree with the premise of the time part of the OP mainly. We actually decided to homeschool next year because of it.
It's mind boggling to think I have to get my kids up at 6, get them to school so they can spend about 40 minutes doing schoolwork and an hour of actual instruction. I'm a proponent of public schools, but they need to adapt. It's happening in some places with PBL and CBL, but the route of common core and standardized testing is not going to force our best and brightest to the front.
It's mind boggling to think I have to get my kids up at 6, get them to school so they can spend about 40 minutes doing schoolwork and an hour of actual instruction. I'm a proponent of public schools, but they need to adapt. It's happening in some places with PBL and CBL, but the route of common core and standardized testing is not going to force our best and brightest to the front.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:18 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Thankfully, Lexington has a couple of public schools for the gifted student. I think all public school distracts should search out and focus more on those kids who show exceptional talents in academic areas. Most other first world societies do it.
We're too obsessed with helping those who are too dumb to help themselves, in all areas of life.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:19 pm to bamafan1001
Man i wish my prof would give me busy work on shite we already know...cause goddamn we move wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too fast.
/derail
:ontopic:
your solutions seems like a whole lot of commotion. And I thought schools already had things for the more dedicated student like Advanced programs, honors, AP, & IB...maybe this is one of the poorer schools who can't afford much of those programs though
/derail
:ontopic:
your solutions seems like a whole lot of commotion. And I thought schools already had things for the more dedicated student like Advanced programs, honors, AP, & IB...maybe this is one of the poorer schools who can't afford much of those programs though
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:25 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
discipline...or inefficiency?
Discipline....the rest of that sentence went like this.....like when you're at work all day and some days you don't have a lot to do.
Definition of discipline: the practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behavior, using punishment to correct disobedience.
Kids need to do EXACTLY as they're told; very few have the intelligence or experience to disobey adults.
Not advocating making little robots out of their spoiled little asses.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:26 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
Students do not need to go to every class for an hour 5x/wk. It is completely inefficient and actually teaches inefficiency to students. SOME kids do need extra help but why must a majority of kids need two hours at the most per subject per week.
Sure they do. The issue isn't the time in class. It's the rigor of the curriculum.
quote:
Are you tired of your kids going to school to do busy work worksheets and watching Finding Nemo and Twilight for the 100th time? So are the kids! They have to intentionally be slow finishing work to avoid boredom.
Not all classes are like this. Especially Honors or AP classes. Maybe in the class where the student you observed is in. But certainly not all.
quote:
Emphasis on self learning with a teacher being there to help with difficult concepts(math, science, etc)
While this approach works great for motivated students, it shouldn't be a catch all approach for all students. Part of our problem in education is there's been a push to standardization when the reality is students learn in a variety of different ways.
quote:
-More occupational based courses and partnership with businesses for apprenticeships
Agree whole heartedly. There needs to be a fall back option for students who are not "college material".
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:27 pm to JordonfortheJ
quote:
your solutions seems like a whole lot of commotion. And I thought schools already had things for the more dedicated student like Advanced programs, honors, AP, & IB...maybe this is one of the poorer schools who can't afford much of those programs though
Some schools have these options but they still carry many of the inefficiency problems that normal programs have.
Sure they would be a lot of commotion because they would be a complete 180 from the way things are done now.
I don't think "because weve always done it this way" is a valid argument against change.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:31 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
I don't think "because weve always done it this way" is a valid argument against change.
Fair statement but you want (or you're arguing) to appease people that aren't smart enough to truly know what's best for themselves.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:35 pm to bamafan1001
quote:
One particular kid I have is a senior who due to breaking a serious rule must finish the rest of his last semester in in-school suspension every day. His teachers will send all of his work and tests that he needs to do and he will complete them in here.
And to further the discussion, why should we be accommodating students who break a serious enough rule that they have to be self-contained away from all other mainstream students the rest of the year?
In a perfect world, that student should be given access to eSchool curriculum and sent home to finish his degree instead of someone babysitting him.
Part of the issue with teachers being able to teach at a rigorous pace so students don't get bored is dealing with behavior they never should have to deal with in a classroom.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:43 pm to Wtodd
quote:
Discipline....the rest of that sentence went like this.....like when you're at work all day and some days you don't have a lot to do.
So telling someone to sit down, be still, and shut up is the most effective way to instill discipline?
Assuming you aren't working a job that requires your physical presence, what boss would want you to sit in an office for hours after you've done all the work you can do that day? Seems to me your boss should give you more workload to get more productivity out of your position.
Lets take what im proposing and apply it to business:
As an employee, you are given 2 options by your boss:
1) Complete 8 units of workload over an 8 hour work day
2) Complete 10 units of workload, but you can leave work once you are finished
Which do you think most employees would choose and which would lead to the most productivity?
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:43 pm to bamafan1001
well I think the state has a lot to do with that not just a school. Teachers have to follow the state guidelines. If there are only 5 subjects to cover in a semester then hey it's what they got to do even if it includes dragging it along.
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:47 pm to BluegrassBelle
The heart of the OP's post is solid, though. By the time the kids get to high school, there's so much "seat time," it's ridiculous.
Look into some articles on doing away with the Carnegie Unit, which is really where your gripe resides. I do think that we should have more self-paced learning with generalist education then allow students to focus and go more in depth within their interest areas. More schools are moving to online and hybrid courses as a way of dealing with it. We have a school in our area that allows kids to self-pace, take online/hybrid courses and concurrently enroll in a local community college, and most graduates of the high school will actually graduate with their diploma AND an Associate's degree.
As others pointed, out, though most schools have access to more rigorous curriculum such as AP/IB.
As the poster before me pointed out, though, this is mainly a state legislative and policy maker issue. It's ironic that they're supposedly trying to push education toward innovation and progress, but their policies really end up hamstringing actual public schools.
Look into some articles on doing away with the Carnegie Unit, which is really where your gripe resides. I do think that we should have more self-paced learning with generalist education then allow students to focus and go more in depth within their interest areas. More schools are moving to online and hybrid courses as a way of dealing with it. We have a school in our area that allows kids to self-pace, take online/hybrid courses and concurrently enroll in a local community college, and most graduates of the high school will actually graduate with their diploma AND an Associate's degree.
As others pointed, out, though most schools have access to more rigorous curriculum such as AP/IB.
As the poster before me pointed out, though, this is mainly a state legislative and policy maker issue. It's ironic that they're supposedly trying to push education toward innovation and progress, but their policies really end up hamstringing actual public schools.
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 5/12/15 at 12:50 pm to bamafan1001
Maybe parents could let their children know that they are allowed to learn more than what the teacher tells them or goes over and can ask said teacher additional questions.
Education (what they actually learn) for the most part is up to the students.
Education (what they actually learn) for the most part is up to the students.
This post was edited on 5/12/15 at 12:51 pm
Page 1 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News