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re: Fast Food Workers To Strike In 150 Cities
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:18 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:18 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Well, I used to think that it was a matter of 'learning a skill', 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' and other talking points but coming to Mexico changed my mind profoundly. I had seen what it was like to see people who have absolutely nothing still try to find ways to work -- and most of the time the labor is exhausted. There are some instances where people need help, and there are some legitimate criticisms of those who manipulate the system.
The general environment on the Rant has never been very supportive, but that's to be expected.
Eh, I could at least say of some of the people who have moved here in this area from other countries that they don't look at certain jobs as "beneath them" if they need the money. Some of the hardest working people I know work over at the track for less than $15 an hour as hot walkers, maintaining stables, etc. And these are people with a lot less "skill" then your average American looking for a job. Some of the African families I work with come in with limited English proficiency and are able to work their way up to management positions at fast food places and make decent wages because of their work ethic. I have the upmost respect for those people, because they truly know what it is to do without (as you said). They're not depending on welfare and making an effort to better themselves.
It seems far more often we see more of those manipulating the system then legitimately needing it though here with people who are from here. I don't have a problem with helping someone if they're willing to help themselves.
This post was edited on 5/11/14 at 4:19 pm
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Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:20 pm to Roger Klarvin
NVM
This post was edited on 5/11/14 at 4:39 pm
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:21 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Meh, Im not gonna hate on someone for taking a job there to support their kids if its all they can get. Some people just simply have very limited upward mobility.
They can go frick themselves if they want nearly double minimum wage, though.
This is a problem that the Teachers had in Mexico had as well. The government is implementing a system to grade them on and they don't want that. They want higher wages, without product testing and with tenure. The first and the third premises are tenable if they'd only abscond with the second.
This is very similar to the protest right now. I think we're all on board with perhaps a slight raise from a comprehensive look at the global, continental, regional, state and local economies to see if it's tenable.
The problem is when they ask for more than most people make on a whole, and where they make it impossible to support their plea.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:21 pm to BluegrassBelle
It sounds good to say fast food jobs should only be entry level jobs for high schoolers, but the fact is the median age for low level fast food workers is 29. So then you have to ask why the median age is so high. One, manufacturing jobs have become more automated, and two, manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas never to return. So you either have to accept they're going to rely on welfare programs to make ends meet, or accept that they have a legitimate gripe for more pay.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:23 pm to Vols&Shaft83
Or they could just be slow? Here's the catch if an employee works and holds a job for years with a business at a menial level we could reward the employer with special tax incentives and why shouldn't the person be subsidized so he can live and have the basic necessities of life.
Government should work for all Americans and American business interest.
Government should work for all Americans and American business interest.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:26 pm to The Spleen
quote:
It sounds good to say fast food jobs should only be entry level jobs for high schoolers, but the fact is the median age for low level fast food workers is 29. So then you have to ask why the median age is so high. One, manufacturing jobs have become more automated, and two, manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas never to return. So you either have to accept they're going to rely on welfare programs to make ends meet, or accept that they have a legitimate gripe for more pay.
And this is one of the more important pieces. There is a legitimate concern with higher-level jobs being available to people. Manufacturing for the most part doesn't necessitate a degree and allows people of the lower end of the spectrum to move up.
Those ain't coming back, and I feel like fastfood may very well be apart of America's strength.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:26 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
A fastfood joint in this day and age is not the same thing it used to be. They're more closely related to restaurants than they used to be and, here in Mexico City, I can actually get Burger King, Subway, McDonald's etc. etc., delivered.
I think the climate for these jobs has changed, and handling food is very important. Perhaps the Socialism approach of ensuring better quality through paying more isn't tenable, but I feel that this is the right answer for that particular facet of the American economy.
These jobs are increasingly more important, and are making more money than ever before. Employees should be paid better, perhaps not to raise an entire family, but for a single person? There is no reason a single person who works full-time regardless of vocation should not be able to support themselves -- or necessitates food stamps to survive.
But as I said, until we can adjust for the reasoning behind someone being on food stamps I don't think there's a decent way to accurately evaluate what needs to be done, or if it is exclusively capricious spending.
Mexico City =/= the United States with your analogy. McDonald's isn't delivering here. Fast food jobs here are still just fast food jobs that weren't intended to provide a livable wage. And still shouldn't be considered as a job to sustain a livable wage for a full household. Now I don't have a problem with a wage increase that goes along with other increases over time but $15 isn't it when you consider the qualifications needed for that position. We're not talking about store managers or regional managers. We're talking about the guy handing me my fries at the window.
Increasing these wages to the degree that they are asking will only increase food prices and more than likely cut the very jobs they occupy. They won't be shouldering the rise in costs, others will. The tipping point will come when fast food sales decline because people are not going to be willing to pay that kind of money for "fast food" when they can get better at a local restaurant for a cheaper price (and if you want to talk about wages, lets talk about servers who work in non-fast food restaurants and manage to get by).
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:27 pm to The Spleen
quote:
...and two, manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas never to return.
Why is that?
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:28 pm to The Spleen
NVM
This post was edited on 5/11/14 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:29 pm to finestfirst79
quote:
...and two, manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas never to return.
Why is that?
Short-term profit matters more than long-term national strength.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:29 pm to The Spleen
quote:
It sounds good to say fast food jobs should only be entry level jobs for high schoolers, but the fact is the median age for low level fast food workers is 29. So then you have to ask why the median age is so high. One, manufacturing jobs have become more automated, and two, manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas never to return. So you either have to accept they're going to rely on welfare programs to make ends meet, or accept that they have a legitimate gripe for more pay.
or they can learn a skill.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:30 pm to The Spleen
quote:
It sounds good to say fast food jobs should only be entry level jobs for high schoolers, but the fact is the median age for low level fast food workers is 29. So then you have to ask why the median age is so high. One, manufacturing jobs have become more automated, and two, manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas never to return. So you either have to accept they're going to rely on welfare programs to make ends meet, or accept that they have a legitimate gripe for more pay.
So we should increase their pay just because the median age is 29? I absolutely have an issue with paying someone well beyond what their work dictates just because they're stuck in that position as a 29 year old.
ETA: And why are their only options welfare or a fast food job? As I listed earlier, there are plenty of places hiring that require little to no skill beyond a high school degree to get that position but I regularly hear that the job is "beneath them". Why shouldn't it be they look at going back to school (where a Pell Grant will more than pay for their school + housing if they have no job)? Or at one of those positions I listed?
This post was edited on 5/11/14 at 4:33 pm
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:31 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Short-term profit matters more than long-term national strength.
They're shipping them over there because of outrageous minimum wages you have to pay here. They do that to keep their prices low.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:33 pm to Henry Jones Jr
Boom.
And guess what happens to other wages when McD's employees get $15/hr?
And guess what happens to other wages when McD's employees get $15/hr?
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:34 pm to The Spleen
I'm sure there's a lot of "these people don't deserve that." "Fast food jobs are for teens. Not suppose to be for raising a family" "rabble rabble rabblr, dumb lazy poors."
The shift globalization has caused in manufacturing has hurt the typical working class without a doubt. These should start to slowly trickle back but many are already lost to automation. In the current market of a lack of demand for labor, many are being forced into these cashier and fast food jobs to cut out a living. I know, so unbecoming to actually try and make a living at such a shitty job...
Until demand picks up in the labor market and manufacturing gets going stronger, this is going to continue to be a problem. Now do I think forcing a raise of 15.00 is reasonable? No. I'm ok with them collectively bargaining to cut out whatever they can.
The moralization of economics (both right and lefty) gets ridiculous.
The shift globalization has caused in manufacturing has hurt the typical working class without a doubt. These should start to slowly trickle back but many are already lost to automation. In the current market of a lack of demand for labor, many are being forced into these cashier and fast food jobs to cut out a living. I know, so unbecoming to actually try and make a living at such a shitty job...
Until demand picks up in the labor market and manufacturing gets going stronger, this is going to continue to be a problem. Now do I think forcing a raise of 15.00 is reasonable? No. I'm ok with them collectively bargaining to cut out whatever they can.
The moralization of economics (both right and lefty) gets ridiculous.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:34 pm to finestfirst79
quote:
And guess what happens to other wages when McD's employees get $15/hr?
No more dollar menu.
And it will be glorious because there will be dumbasses who wonder "WHY DID shite GET MORE EXPENSIVE?!?! CORPORATE GREED!!!! ZOMGZZZ"
This post was edited on 5/11/14 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:36 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
. Now I don't have a problem with a wage increase that goes along with other increases over time but $15 isn't it when you consider the qualifications needed for that position. We're not talking about store managers or regional managers.
I said multiple times that $15 is untenable and insane, it undermines the entire movement for livable wages. Nor did I say Mexico City is comparable to America. The bigger cities in the US do deliver, by the way.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 4:40 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
They're shipping them over there because of outrageous minimum wages you have to pay here. They do that to keep their prices low.
There are exceptions to this rule that work fairly well without throwing their employees or their country under the bus.
Not to mention: When these jobs disappear, how will a populace pay for them? It's not a defensible position to hold concerning the future.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 5:11 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
They're shipping them over there because of outrageous minimum wages you have to pay here.
If you want an economy that looks more like Cambodia's we can have those jobs back. First World workers demand higher wages. It's not the minimum wage that's getting us, labor wouldn't touch those third world wages because it wouldn't come close to being able to support a person much less a family here.
That's not to say I think there should even be a minimum wage, but that's not why manufacturing went overseas.
quote:
They do that to keep their prices low.
They do it to maximize their profit for shareholders. Let's not act like it's for some good of lower prices. It's a good side effect of competition in those markets and the ability to take advantage of the world labor market. They do it for the profits.
Posted on 5/11/14 at 5:20 pm to Duke
quote:
They do it to maximize their profit for shareholders. Let's not act like it's for some good of lower prices. It's a good side effect of competition in those markets and the ability to take advantage of the world labor market. They do it for the profits.
Boom.
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