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re: Do you believe in free will?
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:29 am to rbWarEagle
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:29 am to rbWarEagle
I believe in freedom of volition, not of will (we are free to choose according to what our will wants).
I'm a Christian and I believe that our wills (the fundamental cause of our desires) are tarnished by the original sin of Adam that was passed down to his posterity, and our natural inclination is to sin (break God's moral law).
We, therefore, cannot do what is not sinful because our nature doesn't want to do that. Even the "good" actions we perform are tainted by sinful motives, and because of that, we need to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit before we can choose to believe in Jesus' sacrifice for us and act in a non-sinful way.
I also believe in the sovereignty of God, who is in control of all things, including the actions of mankind. God doesn't force us to act one way or another, but I believe He controls all things that result in necessary actions by humans based on what we are already inclined to do.
I'm a Christian and I believe that our wills (the fundamental cause of our desires) are tarnished by the original sin of Adam that was passed down to his posterity, and our natural inclination is to sin (break God's moral law).
We, therefore, cannot do what is not sinful because our nature doesn't want to do that. Even the "good" actions we perform are tainted by sinful motives, and because of that, we need to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit before we can choose to believe in Jesus' sacrifice for us and act in a non-sinful way.
I also believe in the sovereignty of God, who is in control of all things, including the actions of mankind. God doesn't force us to act one way or another, but I believe He controls all things that result in necessary actions by humans based on what we are already inclined to do.
1
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:31 am to rbWarEagle
quote:
Do you believe in free choice?
FIFY
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:32 am to FooManChoo
Thanks for your contribution, but I don't think I can talk about this in a religious framework as I am not a subscriber.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:33 am to Wtodd
Care to explain your fix? I think they are operationally similar in this case.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:34 am to rbWarEagle
Perhaps, but the religious perspective answers the question, in my opinion.
No, we don't have free will. We have freedom of choice, as someone else stated.
No, we don't have free will. We have freedom of choice, as someone else stated.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:37 am to rbWarEagle
There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance; a host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance. A planet of play things, we dance on the strings of powers we cannot perceive.
'The stars aren't aligned or the gods are maligned... blame is better to give than receive.
But you can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice! You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill. I will choose a path that's clear; I will choose freewill.
Now, there are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand, that the cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland. All preordained; a prisoner in chains; a victim of venomous fate. Kicked in the face, you can't pray for a place in heaven's unearthly estate.
Each of us is a cell of awareness, imperfect and incomplete. Genetic blends with uncertain ends
on a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.
'The stars aren't aligned or the gods are maligned... blame is better to give than receive.
But you can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice! You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill. I will choose a path that's clear; I will choose freewill.
Now, there are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand, that the cards were stacked against them; they weren't born in Lotusland. All preordained; a prisoner in chains; a victim of venomous fate. Kicked in the face, you can't pray for a place in heaven's unearthly estate.
Each of us is a cell of awareness, imperfect and incomplete. Genetic blends with uncertain ends
on a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:38 am to FooManChoo
We don't really have freedom of choice, though. When we make a choice, the decision has already been made in our brain.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:41 am to rbWarEagle
quote:
We don't really have freedom of choice, though. When we make a choice, the decision has already been made in our brain.
Just because your subconscious makes the choice doesn't mean that you aren't making the choice.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:46 am to Duke
quote:
Just because your subconscious makes the choice doesn't mean that you aren't making the choice.
Yes it does because it's below your level of conscious awareness. Also it's your neural activity that makes the choice.
This post was edited on 1/24/14 at 11:50 am
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:54 am to rbWarEagle
Yeah no. It's a choice you made if you consciously thought about it or not. Some dime piece walks in naked. Is it any less of a decision to go grab her Titties if you don't say to yourself "do I want to grab those titties? Why yes other self...yes I do" and just go motorboat those funbags?
This post was edited on 1/24/14 at 11:55 am
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:56 am to Duke
Sure, if by "you" you mean your brain's activity and not your conscious agency. Also digging the humorous aspect you're bringing to the argument 
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:57 am to rbWarEagle
A choice is simply a selection based on two or more options. Everything you do is based on a choice, and every choice is based on any number of things, such as information about the options and potential outcomes, desires, biases, and preferences.
Your options may be limited, but a choice still exists, and we still make choices, all day, every day. We aren't always aware of what choices we are making because they can be the same ones we make every day and don't think about them anymore, or they can be complex with big impacts on our lives or the lives of others and require additional thought and consideration.
Whether you are deliberately (actively thinking about) choosing or choosing out of rote habit, it doesn't matter. We can talk about why we choose what we choose, but we do make choices.
Your options may be limited, but a choice still exists, and we still make choices, all day, every day. We aren't always aware of what choices we are making because they can be the same ones we make every day and don't think about them anymore, or they can be complex with big impacts on our lives or the lives of others and require additional thought and consideration.
Whether you are deliberately (actively thinking about) choosing or choosing out of rote habit, it doesn't matter. We can talk about why we choose what we choose, but we do make choices.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:58 am to rbWarEagle
What is your consciousness if not brain activity?
Posted on 1/24/14 at 11:58 am to Duke
Precisely.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 12:02 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
Why do you believe in free will?
No one made me click on this thread and post in it. I made that decision.
Did you really?
Yes.
How do you know?
STAHP
Posted on 1/24/14 at 12:05 pm to rbWarEagle
If you write the algorithm to make that choice, are you not still making that chiice? Sure you weren't going to make any other decision but you are the designer of the algorithm and therefore made the choice.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 12:14 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
you had no choice over your genetics or your environment, both of which are HUGE factors in your personality, physical shape, brain structure, etc.
Well, according to you, I had no choice over anything. I understand that these things play extreme factors in the decisions we make, but your argument really isn't able to be substantiated.
When I am trying to decide whether to eat dessert or not, my brain can create reason to eat it and not to eat it. So to you're "your brain chooses and your conscience rationalizes it" I would reply "Your brain rationalizes things and you choose them"
Posted on 1/24/14 at 12:25 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
Do you believe in free will?
Yes, life is about choices. You are driven to make some, for instance drinking water to survive, but in even that you have a choice in how obtain the water. Each choice/experience potentially has an impact in shaping the decision making process in making the next choice.
I would actually be more interested in why you think there is no free will.
Posted on 1/24/14 at 12:25 pm to sorantable
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/25/14 at 9:59 am
Posted on 1/24/14 at 12:30 pm to rbWarEagle
quote:
Also, if God already knows what you're going to do, what's the point?
God knowing your choice in advance doesn't change that it's still free will.
He knew what color shirt I was going to wear but I still picked it.
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