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re: Are the following things racist?
Posted on 5/1/16 at 1:47 pm to _Hurricane_
Posted on 5/1/16 at 1:47 pm to _Hurricane_
quote:
1. The confederate flag
In and of itself, no. But symbols do not exist in a vacuum. There really is no denying the divisive racial connotations of the flag. Naive to intimate otherwise, really.
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2. Being frustrated when learning about the civil war because the south lost.
Not racist, but it does make me question the frustration. Would you rather the nation had dissolved? Our progress from that point in history would be vastly different had the south succeeded in becoming a separate nation. I think it's far better that we're still the USA.
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3. Believing Robert E Lee to be a hero.
He was a helluva soldier, but only a hero if you are sympathetic for the cause for which he fought.
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4. Being proud of ancestors who fought for the south.
Not racist. You can be proud of whomever you please.
Damn glad those ancestors failed, though.
1
Posted on 5/1/16 at 1:55 pm to _Hurricane_
Whites who didn't own slaves were still tied into the slave economy and, even more, were beneficiaries of the slave system. Even the poorest of the "poor white trash" could be reassured that there would always be someone lower than them on the socioeconomic ladder.
Posted on 5/1/16 at 2:38 pm to _Hurricane_
and let's all just pretend that silly dust-up in the 19th century was about football. We wanted it but the North didn't. It took us until the end of the 19th century to convince them that it's a fun game.
Posted on 5/2/16 at 12:09 am to CNB
Obviously so. And if instruments mentioned in OP are used to represent a slavery-driven society, that is racist.
But I don't think the Rebel Flag, in particular, has that concrete association. It's more of a redneck rallying call.
I also think the "South should've won" sentiment has more to do with people like Ted Cruz who falsely believe Northerners are devoid of values and whatnot. It's a matter of an inferiority complex- not because they want slavery again
But I don't think the Rebel Flag, in particular, has that concrete association. It's more of a redneck rallying call.
I also think the "South should've won" sentiment has more to do with people like Ted Cruz who falsely believe Northerners are devoid of values and whatnot. It's a matter of an inferiority complex- not because they want slavery again
Posted on 5/2/16 at 12:45 am to _Hurricane_
quote:
1. The confederate flag
2. Being frustrated when learning about the civil war because the south lost.
3. Believing Robert E Lee to be a hero.
4. Being proud of ancestors who fought for the south.
None of these are racist
Posted on 5/2/16 at 6:30 am to _Hurricane_
Are you white?
Cause if so then breathing is racist
Cause if so then breathing is racist
Posted on 5/2/16 at 6:32 am to _Hurricane_
Everything is racist now. When you breath, you are being racist
Posted on 5/2/16 at 8:58 am to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
In and of itself, no. But symbols do not exist in a vacuum. There really is no denying the divisive racial connotations of the flag. Naive to intimate otherwise, really.
Best answer in thread.
But I'll add that the Confederate Flag we all know really didn't become popular in the mainstream until the 40's and 50's when the Dixiecrats like Strom Thurmond used it at their political rallies. And the primary cause of the Dixiecrats was segregation.
Posted on 5/2/16 at 9:05 am to Bigbens42
quote:
Whites who didn't own slaves were still tied into the slave economy and, even more, were beneficiaries of the slave system. Even the poorest of the "poor white trash" could be reassured that there would always be someone lower than them on the socioeconomic ladder.
The North was tied into the slave economy. The cotton being produced on plantations was used at northern textile mills, the bulwark of their economy in the early to mid 19th century.
Posted on 5/2/16 at 9:43 am to _Hurricane_
1. Not really but unfortunately the image has been hijacked by a bunch of white trash. That is why I have never bought any imagery with the flag, I just don't want to be associated with scumbags who have ruined it.
2. It is sad to learn of the destruction the South faced at the end of the war. But I have never felt too bad about it because in the end, whether they had the right to secede or not, enslavement of your fellow man for personal gain is really, really wrong and it had to go. The war and Southern defeat hastened its end.
3. Robert E. Lee was a hero. One of the greatest Americans.
4. Anyone should feel proud of ancestors who fought for their homeland.
2. It is sad to learn of the destruction the South faced at the end of the war. But I have never felt too bad about it because in the end, whether they had the right to secede or not, enslavement of your fellow man for personal gain is really, really wrong and it had to go. The war and Southern defeat hastened its end.
3. Robert E. Lee was a hero. One of the greatest Americans.
4. Anyone should feel proud of ancestors who fought for their homeland.
Posted on 5/2/16 at 9:50 am to _Hurricane_
1) No, but I understand why people hate it.
2) They shouldn't be. It's American history.
3) Wouldn't necessarily call him a hero, but he is an important figure in history.
4) No. It's your past. Don't be proud of what they fought for, but be proud that they fought.
2) They shouldn't be. It's American history.
3) Wouldn't necessarily call him a hero, but he is an important figure in history.
4) No. It's your past. Don't be proud of what they fought for, but be proud that they fought.
Posted on 5/2/16 at 3:51 pm to _Hurricane_
1. Not inherently
2. Yes
3. No
4. Depends, but leaning no.
2. Yes
3. No
4. Depends, but leaning no.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 8:14 am to CNB
quote:
CNB
quote:
quote:
Racism is treating people of a different race inferiorly on the mere fact of their race.
e.g. slavery
You do know that there were white slaves and black slave owners, right? It is not like every black person was a slave and no other race was.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 9:03 am to No Colors
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I have a lot of respect for German soldiers who fought and died on the banks of the Rhine to stop a foreign army from invading their homeland.
frick them. I don't have respect for people who tried to kill my grandfather. If the entire country didn't decided to put an actual sociopath in charge they wouldn't have to defend their homeland from anything.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 9:16 am to _Hurricane_
1. Racism is the dominant symbolism behind that flag. So yeah.
2. President Trump said it best, "I like winners". Why would you be frustrated that the South lost? I'm ashamed that Texas was a part of the Confederacy because it made us losers.
3. He lost.
4. Why would you be proud of losers who were fighting to preserve slavery? Pity their ignorance and admire their fortitude, but don't be proud of them.
2. President Trump said it best, "I like winners". Why would you be frustrated that the South lost? I'm ashamed that Texas was a part of the Confederacy because it made us losers.
3. He lost.
4. Why would you be proud of losers who were fighting to preserve slavery? Pity their ignorance and admire their fortitude, but don't be proud of them.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 9:55 am to JamalSanders
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You do know that there were white slaves and black slave owners, right?
Guess that makes it okay then
Hey guys! Slavery = not racist!
Posted on 5/3/16 at 10:09 am to The Spleen
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I'll add that the Confederate Flag we all know really didn't become popular in the mainstream until the 40's and 50's when the Dixiecrats like Strom Thurmond used it at their political rallies. And the primary cause of the Dixiecrats was segregation.
Yup. It's not hard to see the obvious racist connotations. Takes a leap of rationalization to hold onto it at this point.
And at the end of the day, even I as a black person think the flag is aesthetically pleasing. Hell, so is the swastika, tbh. There's a reason those two things became symbols of a cause--they aren't ugly designs at all. There's no denying those two symbols meant a lot to a lot of folks during their prime.
But you can't set aside the ugly origins of the flag and the divisive permutations of both symbols. Fly/display it all you want on your personal property/person/effects/whatever, but don't act shocked that it reflects poorly on you when you do.
This post was edited on 5/3/16 at 10:10 am
Posted on 5/3/16 at 10:16 am to TbirdSpur2010
The flag itself doesn't mean racism. It means a lot of things. Pride in the southern culture (not the racist part), Pride in your State, etc. But the vast majority of people that care enough to make a big deal out of the flag are doing it because it is racist and they want to fly it because of the racist symbolism in it. They just use the other parts as a cover up.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 10:20 am to CNB
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Hey guys! Slavery = not racist!
No shite slavery isn't racist. People have been owning people since the beginning of time and just because there was a brief moment of history where one small group of a race were predominately owned by a second small group of one race does equate slavery to being racist.
This is also totally ignoring what the civil war was fought over. Slavery was a non issue and was brought up because Lincoln freed all of the southern slaves. The northern slaves, nah frick them, but this other country we are at war with, yeah let's free their slaves.
It is sad that kids these days are being taught in school that the civil war was about slavery, when in reality it could not be any farther from the truth.
Posted on 5/3/16 at 10:32 am to JamalSanders
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Slavery was a non issue
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It is sad that kids these days are being taught in school that the civil war was about slavery, when in reality it could not be any farther from the truth.
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