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re: Alien megastructures? SETI Institute’s Allen Telescope Array targets weird star.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 1:49 pm to Kentucker
Posted on 10/22/15 at 1:49 pm to Kentucker
Even with entanglement, no usable information can be passed faster than light. Usable info still has to be transported through classical means which is limited by the speed of light. If I had a bunch of entangled particles and you had their entangled pairs, there is no way we could use them to communicate with each other because the outcome isn't determined until the particle is observed. We could use them to provide undefeatable encryption though.
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Posted on 10/22/15 at 2:36 pm to TheRodFather
quote:
As far as we know. Even with entanglement, no usable information can be passed faster than light. Usable info still has to be transported through classical means which is limited by the speed of light. If I had a bunch of entangled particles and you had their entangled pairs, there is no way we could use them to communicate with each other because the outcome isn't determined until the particle is observed. We could use them to provide undefeatable encryption though.
We're a very young species to apply the laws we've observed to the rest of the universe. Let's discover more than .0001% of reality before we say it's impossible for them (if there is a them) to do something.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 3:23 pm to hawgfaninc
quote:
who's to say we're wrong in how we're looking for life
Any method of searching for other life forms is correct, IMO. We just have to agree on what life is. I think everyone can agree that life is a complex assemblage of chemicals. That it's high order seeking higher order. Anti-entropy.
Also, I think that, because life is a chemical chain reaction, we have to agree that only carbon can anchor a limitless chain reaction. Silicon has been proposed as an alternate base but that element is not the whore that carbon is. Carbon will bond with just about anything.
So, it seems that life has some parameters that would be universal, order and carbon based being two.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 3:27 pm to TheRodFather
quote:
Even with entanglement, no usable information can be passed faster than light.
Changing the spin of a particle is information. On and off, if you will. Consider what we've done with binary code.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 3:48 pm to Kentucker
You frickers started the most interesting and scary arse thread in years right here and it's kept my arse up thinking about it like a crazy person.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 3:50 pm to TheRodFather
quote:
Even with entanglement, no usable information can yet be passed faster than light by humans. Usable info still has to be transported through classical means by human equipment which is limited by the speed of light. If I had a bunch of entangled particles and you had their entangled pairs, there is no known way we could use them to communicate with each other because the outcome isn't determined until the particle is observed, as far as I know. We could use them to provide potentially undefeatable encryption though.
Bolded words added for accuracy.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 4:03 pm to Stacked
quote:
You frickers started the most interesting and scary arse thread in years right here and it's kept my arse up thinking about it like a crazy person.
I have to say that, even though I'm conditioned against emotion when I analyze new discoveries, this one has me a bit perturbed. Even though there's an industry that feeds us continuous interactions between humans and aliens in the form of entertainment, we've been conditioned to think that we're indestructible and, ultimately, more intelligent (or more lucky) than any potential hostile aliens.
The difference this time is that we're staring at the reality of discovering something for which trembling in our boots might be justified. An intelligence that would make us seem like feces-slinging apes by comparison is truly intimidating. This would definitely not be harmless microbial life.
We're still focused on bludgeoning and killing each other. We're not prepared to encounter a species that might be supremely unified in purpose. All we could do would be to hope they aren't interested in us or our habitat.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 7:06 pm to Stacked
I second this. Impressive,OT Board ... most impressive. Definitely following this one.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 8:35 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
We're a very young species to apply the laws we've observed to the rest of the universe. Let's discover more than .0001% of reality before we say it's impossible for them (if there is a them) to do something.
This is a key issue. Our laws are based on the universe as we see it, not as the universe actually exists. Even if true terraforming still eludes us an advanced species my view terraforming the way were view cave men as primitive. Certainly we now know the world is not flat, nor are we the center of the known universe. This simple knowledge only took billions of years to accumulate.
The biggest issue is getting to another planet or moon to allow survival beyond a single planet and an ELE.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 8:50 pm to JacketFan77
Here are some details about SETI's investigation of KIC 8462852, which has begun. SETI will begin to publish results of their effort next week.
Also, the possibility that the anomaly in the KIC 8462852 solar system is the result of two or more planets colliding has been dropped because no infrared radiation has been detected. A planetary collision would generate a lot of dust which would give off infrared radiation. None has been detected outside normal parameters.
That leaves three possibilities: (1) A cometary swarm. This would be caused by some kind of gravity-caused perturbation in the stable orbits of comets in the solar system. It's technically feasible but is not a satisfying answer to the mystery; (2) alien megastructures that are harnessing energy from the star; and (3) something scientists have not foreseen, an entirely new discovery regarding planetary physics. This is possible but not probable if we trust physics and the physicists who seem entirely smart enough to explain planetary relationships.
Also, the possibility that the anomaly in the KIC 8462852 solar system is the result of two or more planets colliding has been dropped because no infrared radiation has been detected. A planetary collision would generate a lot of dust which would give off infrared radiation. None has been detected outside normal parameters.
That leaves three possibilities: (1) A cometary swarm. This would be caused by some kind of gravity-caused perturbation in the stable orbits of comets in the solar system. It's technically feasible but is not a satisfying answer to the mystery; (2) alien megastructures that are harnessing energy from the star; and (3) something scientists have not foreseen, an entirely new discovery regarding planetary physics. This is possible but not probable if we trust physics and the physicists who seem entirely smart enough to explain planetary relationships.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 9:42 pm to Kentucker
This thread is interesting as all get out 
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:03 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Thanks. The most interesting aspect of this story so far is that the discovery was not made by professional scientists.
Several members of Planet Hunters, a group of citizen volunteers who were recruited to help analyze the massive amounts of data from the Kepler mission, first spotted the anomaly. Anyone can join the effort.
I'm a member but I'm afraid I don't have the patience to plod through the data looking for dimming patterns. I greatly admire those people who can and I hope they get the recognition they deserve, especially if it turns out to be a remarkable discovery.
Several members of Planet Hunters, a group of citizen volunteers who were recruited to help analyze the massive amounts of data from the Kepler mission, first spotted the anomaly. Anyone can join the effort.
I'm a member but I'm afraid I don't have the patience to plod through the data looking for dimming patterns. I greatly admire those people who can and I hope they get the recognition they deserve, especially if it turns out to be a remarkable discovery.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:14 pm to Kentucker
"obscured the star's brightness by up to 15%, and the other by up to 22%. In comparison, a planet the size of Jupiter would only obscure a star of this size by 1%, indicating that whatever is blocking light during the star's major dips is not a planet, but rather something covering up to half the width of the star."
Horrifying if it's a megastructure. Can you imagine the years it would take to build something that would cover the sun up by 22%? 22 Jupiters? And they've also ruled out two planets colliding apparently.
"A massive collision scenario would create warm dust that glows in infrared wavelengths, but there is no observed excess infrared energy, ruling out massive planetary collision debris."
It may very well be a phenomenon that we have never witnessed, but that's a lot of sun to obscure.
Horrifying if it's a megastructure. Can you imagine the years it would take to build something that would cover the sun up by 22%? 22 Jupiters? And they've also ruled out two planets colliding apparently.
"A massive collision scenario would create warm dust that glows in infrared wavelengths, but there is no observed excess infrared energy, ruling out massive planetary collision debris."
It may very well be a phenomenon that we have never witnessed, but that's a lot of sun to obscure.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:23 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
A large, random assortment of cometary debris spread out along a single orbit around KIC 8462852 could explain the irregular dips seen by Kepler — but it's an imperfect solution, as the recorded light curves have some quirky shape characteristics that can't easily be matched by the shattered-comet model.
After the putative breakup these fragments would disperse quickly, so why was Kepler lucky enough to be watching precisely when this solitary comet just happened to come undone? The researchers sidestep this timing dilemma by postulating that that a family of comets are buzzing close to the star, perhaps perturbed inward by gravitational nudges from the distant companion.
-- Which to me just doesn't gel. How many comets would it take running in the same path to obscure the luminosity at the same time? Especially 22% of the star? And why doesn't/wouldn't dust from other impact events show up on infrared?
After the putative breakup these fragments would disperse quickly, so why was Kepler lucky enough to be watching precisely when this solitary comet just happened to come undone? The researchers sidestep this timing dilemma by postulating that that a family of comets are buzzing close to the star, perhaps perturbed inward by gravitational nudges from the distant companion.
-- Which to me just doesn't gel. How many comets would it take running in the same path to obscure the luminosity at the same time? Especially 22% of the star? And why doesn't/wouldn't dust from other impact events show up on infrared?
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:27 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Also, the idea that it's a comet swarm seems unlikely. Nobody likes that explanation even though it is feasible. There has been no information about a body big enough to disrupt the orbits of the number of comets it would take to block up to 22% of KIC 8462852's light.
This post was edited on 10/22/15 at 11:30 pm
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:30 pm to Kentucker
What do you mean they could have their way with us? Like bitch slap us around? What?
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:32 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Also, the idea that it's a comet swarm seems unlikely. Nobody likes that explanation even though it is feasible. There has been no information about a body big enough to disrupt the orbits of the number of comets it would take to block up to 22% of KIC 8462852's light.
It's feasible but that is a LOT of light. What actually does make sense is if it's a Dyson Sphere, it would be collecting (harnessing) the energy and so there's a good chance we wouldn't be able to detect the structure itself through heat.
All of the other problems are presented in the same way: They're not reflecting the heat produced by the star (such as the comet/planetary collision theory) and if it caught an asteroid belt, it would do the exact same thing. Can't wait to see what SETI has to say in a week or two.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:33 pm to BugaPainTrain7
They might like to have their tentacles sucked. Who knows?
Worst case scenario? We could be a new food source for them.
Worst case scenario? We could be a new food source for them.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:42 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
What actually does make sense is if it's a Dyson Sphere, it would be collecting (harnessing) the energy and so there's a good chance we wouldn't be able to detect the structure itself through heat.
Here is a brief read speculating about the possibility of a Dyson Sphere.
I think we may be over-analyzing the possibility of a Dyson Sphere. The energy needs of an alien civilization may be nothing similar to what we think we would need.
This post was edited on 10/22/15 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:42 pm to Kentucker
That'd really suck to be eaten by an Alien right after I met them... 
What if Aliens post on TD?
What if Aliens post on TD? 
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