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Posted on 10/22/15 at 9:59 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
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I think we should start being a whole hell of a lot quieter and stop broadcasting our whereabouts in space. We always like to think the universe started with our sentience, but the fact of the matter is: It probably started longer ago than we can imagine and other civilizations might not take too kindly to our growth rate.
Thankfully, our transmissions turn to total static after about a 100 lightyears or so (IIRC). But I agree, I don't see any reason to go out of our way to tell anything where we are. That's possibly the dumbest thing we could ever do.
If we did have anything of use, it would be likely as a vacation spot or as a museum/zoo. We have a large amount of flora/fauna, its not impossible that we've been placed on some intergalactic 'primitive culture protection list' to keep space-poachers or what have you from riding in.
I think it was Asimov who said there are two possibilities: Either we're alone in the universe or we aren't. Both are equally terrifying.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 10:16 am to cokebottleag
Statistically us being alone in the universe isn't a realistic possibility. Given the number of stars and planets, the odds of there being no other forms of life anywhere are infinitesimally small.
This post was edited on 10/22/15 at 10:17 am
Posted on 10/22/15 at 10:26 am to Roger Klarvin
Then add in the fact that how old the universe, as we know it, really is and the possibilities are staggering. It makes me kind of said that the possibility of a advanced civilization that could have possibly existed but died out. Scary
Posted on 10/22/15 at 10:32 am to Pavoloco83
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Post pics of your girlfriend for proper OT evaluation.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 10:45 am to Roger Klarvin
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Statistically us being alone in the universe isn't a realistic possibility. Given the number of stars and planets, the odds of there being no other forms of life anywhere are infinitesimally small.
That totally depends on the model you are using. There are scholars who have come up with complex models which basically say that 'intelligent' life takes so many events which are of such a small probability to happen that even for Earth to have intelligent life is close to impossible. Andrew Watson made some waves in 2008 with his theories.
Stephen Hawking gave a speech on this as well: Linky
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There is fossil evidence, that there was some form of life on Earth, about three and a half billion years ago. This may have been only 500 million years after the Earth became stable and cool enough, for life to develop. But life could have taken 7 billion years to develop, and still have left time to evolve to beings like us, who could ask about the origin of life. If the probability of life developing on a given planet, is very small, why did it happen on Earth, in about one 14th of the time available.
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What is the explanation of why we have not been visited? One possibility is that the argument, about the appearance of life on Earth, is wrong. Maybe the probability of life spontaneously appearing is so low, that Earth is the only planet in the galaxy, or in the observable universe, in which it happened. Another possibility is that there was a reasonable probability of forming self reproducing systems, like cells, but that most of these forms of life did not evolve intelligence.
We are used to thinking of intelligent life, as an inevitable consequence of evolution. But the Anthropic Principle should warn us to be wary of such arguments. It is more likely that evolution is a random process, with intelligence as only one of a large number of possible outcomes. It is not clear that intelligence has any long-term survival value. Bacteria, and other single cell organisms, will live on, if all other life on Earth is wiped out by our actions.
There is support for the view that intelligence, was an unlikely development for life on Earth, from the chronology of evolution. It took a very long time, two and a half billion years, to go from single cells to multi-cell beings, which are a necessary precursor to intelligence. This is a good fraction of the total time available, before the Sun blows up. So it would be consistent with the hypothesis, that the probability for life to develop intelligence, is low.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 10:53 am to MontyFranklyn
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Then add in the fact that how old the universe, as we know it, really is and the possibilities are staggering. It makes me kind of said that the possibility of a advanced civilization that could have possibly existed but died out. Scary
It's really a timer: each star has a certain lifespan (14 billion years, for instance). Intelligent life has a certain amount of time to evolve and develop enough to colonize a new system before their star blows up.
Its also been noted that certain other specs have to be met for a planet to have intelligent life:
A thick enough atmosphere for protection from stellar radiation
A large enough moon for tidal and seismic activity to be frequent, but not too large to destabilize the planet
A larger planet outside the orbit of the terrestrial world such as a gas giant to collect most meteors which would cause extinction
significant amounts of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, etc
water
large enough gap in extinction events for intelligent life to evolve. Currently we are sitting at a very long gap of 70 million years since the last major asteroid impact (dinosaurs). This is not considered normal.
Maintaining an orbit in the 'goldilocks zone' to allow water to retain liquid state for sustained periods
etc etc
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:03 am to Kentucker
Kermit was right, just not easy being green.
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Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:11 am to cokebottleag
Let's look at the evidence:
GOOD ALIENS:
E.T.
Starman
BAD ALIENS:
The Rest
Based strictly on the evidence, I think we should stay away from them.
GOOD ALIENS:
E.T.
Starman
BAD ALIENS:
The Rest
Based strictly on the evidence, I think we should stay away from them.
This post was edited on 10/22/15 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:37 am to PrivatePublic
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No it isn't.
Sure it is. Quantum entanglement shows that information can be passed between particles instantaneously, independent of the speed of light. While we certainly don't yet understand how this happens, applications for its use are being explored.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 11:49 am to cokebottleag
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Thankfully, our transmissions turn to total static after about a 100 lightyears or so (IIRC). But I agree, I don't see any reason to go out of our way to tell anything where we are. That's possibly the dumbest thing we could ever do
If something is looking for us, there's no way to hide from it. Earth's atmosphere, with its high oxygen content, has been a beacon of life for about two billion years. Add our radio transmissions for the past 100+ years and we become a point of interest to an intelligent alien species who might be wondering if they're alone in the Universe.
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If we did have anything of use, it would be likely as a vacation spot or as a museum/zoo. We have a large amount of flora/fauna, its not impossible that we've been placed on some intergalactic 'primitive culture protection list' to keep space-poachers or what have you from riding in.
I like it. They may we waiting for us to evolve beyond our warring nature. quote:
I think it was Asimov who said there are two possibilities: Either we're alone in the universe or we aren't. Both are equally terrifying.
My favorite science fiction writer.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 12:02 pm to Roger Klarvin
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Statistically us being alone in the universe isn't a realistic possibility. Given the number of stars and planets, the odds of there being no other forms of life anywhere are infinitesimally small.
This seems logical until we actually begin looking for other intelligent species. Assuming intelligence is directly associated with technology, we should see evidence of its use as a first marker of intelligent life. Absolutely nothing has been seen.
It may be that we are the only intelligent life in the galaxy. Maybe in the Universe. We certainly shouldn't stop looking but the more we explore, the more evidence we accumulate that we're alone.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 12:06 pm to Kentucker
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Sure it is.
Superluminal communication makes some interesting cases, too. Not sure why we think with our limited capacity to understand the universe that we think a Type II civilization (which would easily have over 10,000 years of advancement than us) wouldn't be able to do something like that.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 12:12 pm to MontyFranklyn
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It makes me kind of said that the possibility of a advanced civilization that could have possibly existed but died out.
If an intelligent species successfully overcomes the impulses of evolution to multiply at all costs, including the destruction of its own habitat, it's unlikely that it would ever die out. Once instinct disappears and reason takes its place, a species can adapt to any situation. It can even create its own circumstances.
If humans, for example, can manage to survive long enough to develop artificial intelligence and then merge with it, the possibilities are limitless for our spread into the Universe.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 12:15 pm to Kentucker
quote:They may have evolved to the purest form of energy
If an intelligent species successfully overcomes the impulses of evolution to multiply at all costs, including the destruction of its own habitat, it's unlikely that it would ever die out. Once instinct disappears and reason takes its place, a species can adapt to any situation. It can even create its own circumstances.
If humans, for example, can manage to survive long enough to develop artificial intelligence and then merge with it, the possibilities are limitless for our spread into the Universe.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 12:21 pm to cokebottleag
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There is fossil evidence, that there was some form of life on Earth, about three and a half billion years ago
This estimate has recently been moved back to 4.1 billion years ago using "chemical fossilization." LINK
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Maybe the probability of life spontaneously appearing is so low, that Earth is the only planet in the galaxy, or in the observable universe, in which it happened.
Life may be ubiquitous, but intelligent life may be unique to earth.
This post was edited on 10/22/15 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 10/22/15 at 12:29 pm to DownSouthJukin
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Based strictly on the evidence, I think we should stay away from them.
The main evidence is us. We are a warring species and still have amongst us specimens who enjoy the destruction of others, who actually take pleasure from persecuting and torturing whole segments of the earth's population.
Until that trait becomes extinct we will be the species others should avoid. Maybe that's why no aliens want to be friends with us.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 12:33 pm to cokebottleag
I wasn't talking specifically about intelligent life, merely life in general.
However all calculations involving the odds of intelligent life forming based on our own odds of doing so inherently have limitations. Namely, the problem of calculating the odds of an event occurring when that event is the very reason you are able to calculate it.
However all calculations involving the odds of intelligent life forming based on our own odds of doing so inherently have limitations. Namely, the problem of calculating the odds of an event occurring when that event is the very reason you are able to calculate it.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 12:33 pm to MontyFranklyn
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They may have evolved to the purest form of energy
Energy is high entropy, though, while life is high order. It seems unlikely that life could exist as energy.
Posted on 10/22/15 at 1:25 pm to Kentucker
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Based strictly on the evidence, I think we should stay away from them.
The main evidence is us.
it's the only evidence we have. we're looking for life based on our human intelligence. which is pretty arrogant on our part.
who's to say we're wrong in how we're looking for life. hell other life forms could be all around us but our human intelligence prevents us from realizing it.
eta: LINK
This post was edited on 10/22/15 at 1:27 pm
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