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re: 5 Reasons not to ban the confederate flag
Posted on 6/27/15 at 4:01 pm to kywildcatfanone
Posted on 6/27/15 at 4:01 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
The core reason for the civil war was about states rights. I thought most everyone knew that, until I started reading threads on TD.
That's probably because your only knowledge of the civil war is from 8th grade history class at some small town public school.
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Posted on 6/27/15 at 4:21 pm to kywildcatfanone
Civil War was about state rights. The biggest state right issue was whether the south could continue with slavery. That isn't revisionist, that is the truth.
Regardless, how anyone thinks it is acceptable to fly a flag of traitors and rebels is absurd. More absurd to have it at public buildings and property. Confederacy was in open rebellion against the USA, "South Will Rise Again" people are lucky their ancestors weren't executed at the end of the war.
Regardless, how anyone thinks it is acceptable to fly a flag of traitors and rebels is absurd. More absurd to have it at public buildings and property. Confederacy was in open rebellion against the USA, "South Will Rise Again" people are lucky their ancestors weren't executed at the end of the war.
Posted on 6/27/15 at 4:58 pm to GenesChin
quote:
anyone thinks it is acceptable to fly a flag of traitors and rebels is absurd
Traitors and rebels? You are calling confederate soldiers, traitors and rebels. Geez.
Posted on 6/27/15 at 5:04 pm to Stonehog
quote:
That's probably because your only knowledge of the civil war is from 8th grade history class at some small town public school.
Sorry, I get my understanding of history from places other than wikipedia. I know it's the go to information source for "intellectuals".
Posted on 6/27/15 at 5:09 pm to Stonehog
Southern legislatures issued declarations of secession in response to the election of Lincoln. The expansion of slavery into the newly created western territories was THE campaign issue in 1860. Lincoln opposed it. The South demanded it.
A brief cold war ensued between the USA and CSA. SC then fired on Ft. Sumter. Lincoln declared the South in a state of rebellion, issued a call for volunteers, and then the shooting war started.
I don't get how this is all so complicated to grasp. But apparently, it really is for some reason.
A brief cold war ensued between the USA and CSA. SC then fired on Ft. Sumter. Lincoln declared the South in a state of rebellion, issued a call for volunteers, and then the shooting war started.
I don't get how this is all so complicated to grasp. But apparently, it really is for some reason.
Posted on 6/27/15 at 5:28 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
You are calling confederate soldiers, traitors and rebels.
That's exactly what they were.
ETA: Hell, that's exactly what WE (Americans) were in the War for Independence.
Yankees won their war.
Rebs lost theirs.
If you attempt to break away from an established government and fail, you are, in fact, a traitor to that government, and damn well better win your war or forever be remembered as such.
This post was edited on 6/27/15 at 5:31 pm
Posted on 6/27/15 at 5:43 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
You are calling confederate soldiers, traitors and rebels. Geez.
They were American, opted to try and separate from the Union and opted for War. They then ended up killing American soldiers and damage to the country. If that isn't a "rebel" and if starting a war of succession as Americans isn't being a "traitor" you are nuts.
ETA: To address what TBird pointed out, if AMerica lost the revolution, there would be mass executions of anyone above grunt for being traitors to the crown.
This post was edited on 6/27/15 at 5:45 pm
Posted on 6/27/15 at 6:09 pm to GenesChin
Article 3 of the U.S. Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."
The Confederacy was definitely levying war against the US.
For the philosophers: If Johnny Reb belts out the Rebel Yell in a forest and nobody hears it, does he make a sound?
The Confederacy was definitely levying war against the US.
For the philosophers: If Johnny Reb belts out the Rebel Yell in a forest and nobody hears it, does he make a sound?
Posted on 6/27/15 at 6:33 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Fair enough. 
I guess I come at it more so from a states rights issue being trampled by the federal govt, like many things that are happening today.
My family had soldiers on both sides of the war, and I consider slavery the blackest eye in our history, but I also try to understand that my thinking is from the life I live in today's world, and life was quite different for people 150+ years ago.
Govt was then, and is certainly now, too intrusive in the lives of the individuals, and states should have more power to choose their own laws.
I guess I come at it more so from a states rights issue being trampled by the federal govt, like many things that are happening today. My family had soldiers on both sides of the war, and I consider slavery the blackest eye in our history, but I also try to understand that my thinking is from the life I live in today's world, and life was quite different for people 150+ years ago.
Govt was then, and is certainly now, too intrusive in the lives of the individuals, and states should have more power to choose their own laws.
Posted on 6/27/15 at 6:47 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
Eh, there were much bigger issues to southern states than slavery that led to the civil war.
Money usually precedes and follows war as assets change hands
History of Lake Providence, LA is a case study concerning cotton and both sides taking profits. Seems the northern folks were way worse between what they kept and what they spent on labor.
Posted on 6/27/15 at 7:32 pm to Cheese Grits
The constitution of the United States, states explicitly that the states had a right to secede. Also the civil war before during and after was very complicated and trying to apply 2015 ways of thinking to the 1800s is not the way to understand it. Slavery ended in the north due to industrialization. The south should have been allowed to evolve the same way. As far as Lincoln and the slaves, Lincoln freed the slaves to keep the British from assisting the south and to sway public opinion.
Posted on 6/27/15 at 7:50 pm to STUPIDFACE
quote:
The constitution of the United States, states explicitly that the states had a right to secede.
Have you read the thing? Because it actually does not state in any way shape or form the "right to secede"
Posted on 6/27/15 at 7:50 pm to STUPIDFACE
quote:
The constitution of the United States, states explicitly that the states had a right to secede.
The constitution of the United States does not state in any way shape or form the "right to secede" either implicitly or explicitly.
Regardless, it was active rebellion and that means they were traitors
This post was edited on 6/27/15 at 7:56 pm
Posted on 6/27/15 at 8:40 pm to GenesChin
Where does the U.S. Constitution refer to provisions for secession? None of the southern states' declarations of secession cite it.
Not many constitutions make allowances for a "here today, gone tomorrow" system of government.
Not many constitutions make allowances for a "here today, gone tomorrow" system of government.
Posted on 6/27/15 at 8:54 pm to GenesChin
quote:
Regardless, it was active rebellion and that means they were traitors
So were the leaders who founded this country then, traitors from English rule. I have a hard time faulting them, they were being oppressed by their government. It's happening here on a daily basis.
Posted on 6/28/15 at 7:54 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
So were the leaders who founded this country then, traitors from English rule. I have a hard time faulting them, they were being oppressed by their government. It's happening here on a daily basis.
Technically yes, but they won.
When you read what Madison wrote about revolution, they were justified as it was oppression that forced action. The Confederacy broke off because they thought they would eventually outlaw slavery when new non slave territories altered the congressional balance
Posted on 6/28/15 at 8:26 am to GenesChin
quote:
they were justified as it was oppression that forced action.
Hmmm....
Posted on 6/28/15 at 9:03 am to PikeBishop
quote:
Where does the U.S. Constitution refer to provisions for secession?
The USConst is silent on secession. If you speak the same English in use before the "time-out generation" reached adulthood, then this silence, under the tenth amendment, does in fact confer that right upon the individual states.
"Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
However, as we learned from recent SC decisions, words don't necessarily mean what they say, so you may want to take this with a grain of salt.
Posted on 6/28/15 at 12:05 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
Traitors and rebels? You are calling confederate soldiers, traitors and rebels. Geez.
They were. Hell, they called themselves rebels. Why do you think Ole Miss is known as the Rebels?
Posted on 6/28/15 at 3:30 pm to hawgfaninc
quote:
1. The civil war was an American Holocaust
2. The civil war was not about slavery
3. Lincoln was a racist
4. We don't negotiate with terrorists
5. America was not built on slavery
And here are Five Myths About Why the South Seceded
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