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re: Read and React D-Real Problem
Posted on 10/5/16 at 2:10 pm to TigerCruise
Posted on 10/5/16 at 2:10 pm to TigerCruise
we seem to always have that problem with any scheme. A hole get's blown in the line and then there is nobody for 10 yds
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Posted on 10/5/16 at 3:07 pm to Wtodd
Those were guys who fit the Kul system, for BO he needs guys that are bigger to maintain their gaps. LBs that can take on pulling guards etc. Im not trying to be negative but these types regardless of star rating are not on the recruiting list.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 4:46 pm to surgicalvenom
We need more athletic LB's with a high football IQ. Speed at LB would be great, but it is not the most important at that position.
In the 16 class we know Cale Garrett has the IQ, but can he put on the weight and not let it slow him down.
I don't know much about Baldwin. Like Garrett can he add the size and be productive.
I would like to see if we can move Albert Okwuegbunam to the LB/WDE. He has the size, but could the coaches make the transition.
For the 17 class Mizzou might need to go with JUCO or a grad transfer to be productive next year.
In the 16 class we know Cale Garrett has the IQ, but can he put on the weight and not let it slow him down.
I don't know much about Baldwin. Like Garrett can he add the size and be productive.
I would like to see if we can move Albert Okwuegbunam to the LB/WDE. He has the size, but could the coaches make the transition.
For the 17 class Mizzou might need to go with JUCO or a grad transfer to be productive next year.
Posted on 10/5/16 at 4:56 pm to surgicalvenom
In the 14 and 15 classes we have recruited Lee, Hall, and Agbasimere. I'm hoping one of them can turn into a Brothers like LB.
Maybe with Cross they can live up to there talent. I'm not sold yet on Lee or Hall and I have not seen enough of Agbasimere.
Maybe with Cross they can live up to there talent. I'm not sold yet on Lee or Hall and I have not seen enough of Agbasimere.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 11:34 am to Tackle74
You are right Tackle74; we have 8 starters return on defense from a year ago; and our D is having issues. I would prefer that Mizzou return to the attack & recover D we have been playing for the past several years.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 11:50 am to Supreme Tiger
LSU is no better a team than Georgia; both are good but not great teams. Many Mizzou players had that "deer in the headlights" look before and during the LSU game. They had no visible energy before the game. The event was too large for this young team. I wish Mizzou would return to the attacking D they played the last several years.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 12:32 pm to SDWeltoro
Our Dline needs to find a system it will play for the next 10 years or longer. It will help recruit the type of players we need.
It will also help find the type of coaches we need to coach up the players. Coach Shipp may be a great Dline coach, but he does not stay at any place very long.
Any system that works will make me happy. In the long run this system maybe better. It did work against Georgia, but they had a smaller Oline. It did not work against LSU a team with a big Oline
It will also help find the type of coaches we need to coach up the players. Coach Shipp may be a great Dline coach, but he does not stay at any place very long.
Any system that works will make me happy. In the long run this system maybe better. It did work against Georgia, but they had a smaller Oline. It did not work against LSU a team with a big Oline
This post was edited on 10/6/16 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 10/6/16 at 12:46 pm to MizzouBS
Did you notice against UGA, they didn't use R&R very much. You could tell the LB's were not waiting, they attacked up field, and Harris looked like himself coming off the edge. My theory is we knew UGA had great RB's and we needed to stop them, so we attacked. Against LSU, with Fournette hurt or at least hobbled, BO went back to R&R and Guice made us pay. just my theory.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 1:20 pm to surgicalvenom
Did Harris play with his hand on the ground against both teams? I don't remember. I would like him to back up off the line a few feet on some passing plays and speed rush the QB.
This could help against a double team and let him push the tackle back before he can get his feet set.
This could help against a double team and let him push the tackle back before he can get his feet set.
Posted on 10/6/16 at 2:37 pm to MizzouBS
The ends play hands down and stand up depending on whats called. The big key is the tackles. They play off the LOS in a 4 point stance and stand up to "Read." Last year and against UGA, they fired off the snap from a 3 point stance, and lined up right on the LOS.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 10:17 am to TigerCruise
That's because the offensive lineman are NFL caliber lineman for the most part. You can't give a line like that and a running game like that time to develop the blocks and running lanes. Shooting the gaps, several things can happen. One, you force the O-line to hold which if the refs are there and throwing the flags causes the O-line to be more tentative not the defense. It also blows up the play with an unblocked D-lineman in the backfield. But there were also many runs that were cut back runs. They used the D-lines pursuit against them. They basically washed the D-line and LB's in a misdirection. Once they were going backwards and to one side, a RB like Guice had a field day. Another reason to go straight up field.
Give credit where it's due. LSU's line was more physical, more talented and finished their blocks on about every play. They won the trenches so they won the game.
Changing the scheme would have helped. I agree Mizzou's D-line is one dimensional. So use a scheme that suits the players you have. When the roster turns over to the point where you can run a read and react scheme, then change over to that. But for now, it's just not working. I have my doubts that they can recruit good enough players to run this defense in this conference. The backs are fast and big. The O-lines are talented and big. An attack style defense with the caliber of recruits we get and probably will get down the road has worked in this conference.
As the old saying goes, "Don't try to fix what aint broke".
Give credit where it's due. LSU's line was more physical, more talented and finished their blocks on about every play. They won the trenches so they won the game.
Changing the scheme would have helped. I agree Mizzou's D-line is one dimensional. So use a scheme that suits the players you have. When the roster turns over to the point where you can run a read and react scheme, then change over to that. But for now, it's just not working. I have my doubts that they can recruit good enough players to run this defense in this conference. The backs are fast and big. The O-lines are talented and big. An attack style defense with the caliber of recruits we get and probably will get down the road has worked in this conference.
As the old saying goes, "Don't try to fix what aint broke".
Posted on 10/7/16 at 10:32 am to Supreme Tiger
quote:
We just played arguably the most talented complete team in the country
quote:
This team just competed well with Georgia,
You can't have it both ways. You can't brag about competing with UGA and in the same breathe laugh at UGA for struggling to beat Nicholls. If we're being honest. Now, if you're just talking shite, then sure, go right ahead.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 11:25 am to Porter Osborne Jr
Dude, you realize Supreme Tiger has been booted for just writing shite to fire people up.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 12:06 pm to surgicalvenom
I honestly was ready to move on and accept R&R but then I read this Markus Golden article and played the GIF.
This is the Toledo game 2 years ago. Toledo is setting up a WR screen pass. The WR in motion reverses, the backside is blocked, Golden gets a free run to "run" himself out of the play.
Watch the DL:
They fire off the snap, Golden reads run and takes a step to pursue, the other DE reads run and breaks off his rush and bends right into the RB, the tackles flow to the RB.
Golden then reads pass and rushes the QB, at the same time watch the MLB, he reads pass and runs to cover the WR.
Kul's system was far from just mindlessly bull rushing upfield. The DL attacked and dictated flow. They didn't wait for the OL to dictate flow and try to react. Golden made 2 reads, run and pass, while running full speed, he didn't hesitate his rush to read the play.
Because the DL fires on the snap, the OL is occupied, they cannot pull a guard to block the MLB. Therefore the MLB can see the play in front of him, read and react and have free run. A benefit of a well trained, aggressive DL.
This one play shows us why our DL was so menacing and exactly why Mizzou LBs could put up very high tackle numbers. These guys were well taught and executed. The DL did their job which allowed the LBs to do theirs. For those who say Kuls system was about individuals and R&R is about team, I show them this GIF as exhibit A. Kuls system was about team, but slip up and the DE's made you pay.
Read the article, a scout says some interesting things about "staples in the Mizzou DL" and the LB philosophy.
I honestly hope BO gets his system in place, but damn do I miss the old system. OK, I'm officially supporting R&R from here on out. Thanks for reading.
LINK
This is the Toledo game 2 years ago. Toledo is setting up a WR screen pass. The WR in motion reverses, the backside is blocked, Golden gets a free run to "run" himself out of the play.
Watch the DL:
They fire off the snap, Golden reads run and takes a step to pursue, the other DE reads run and breaks off his rush and bends right into the RB, the tackles flow to the RB.
Golden then reads pass and rushes the QB, at the same time watch the MLB, he reads pass and runs to cover the WR.
Kul's system was far from just mindlessly bull rushing upfield. The DL attacked and dictated flow. They didn't wait for the OL to dictate flow and try to react. Golden made 2 reads, run and pass, while running full speed, he didn't hesitate his rush to read the play.
Because the DL fires on the snap, the OL is occupied, they cannot pull a guard to block the MLB. Therefore the MLB can see the play in front of him, read and react and have free run. A benefit of a well trained, aggressive DL.
This one play shows us why our DL was so menacing and exactly why Mizzou LBs could put up very high tackle numbers. These guys were well taught and executed. The DL did their job which allowed the LBs to do theirs. For those who say Kuls system was about individuals and R&R is about team, I show them this GIF as exhibit A. Kuls system was about team, but slip up and the DE's made you pay.
Read the article, a scout says some interesting things about "staples in the Mizzou DL" and the LB philosophy.
I honestly hope BO gets his system in place, but damn do I miss the old system. OK, I'm officially supporting R&R from here on out. Thanks for reading.
LINK
This post was edited on 10/7/16 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 10/7/16 at 1:24 pm to surgicalvenom
Turn'm loose Odom.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 1:48 pm to MizzouBS
Here's the weaknesses of any post that only looks at 1 side of the ball, a team is a team, not a defensive unit. This quick strike or strikeout offense is literally exhausting our defense. We are a little hopeful about what our D did to the Georgia backs, but here's the key our freaking offense had a pulse and therefore have our D time to rest and adjust. Here's our time of possession our O provided for our D vs LSU to rest and ADJUST for the 1st quarter:
-.35
-1.41
-.59
-.48
-1.46
-1.20
-1.02
Our freaking average time of possession was 70 seconds!!!!!!!!!!
The offense when it poops it's pants literally does to our defense what it is designed to do to other teams defenses. Our players get exhausted, our coaches don't have time to make good adjustments and when they do, the players do NOT have enough time to put them into practice. Everyone is loving up Heupel to the point of being scared of losing him that they ignore the fact he is slowing down the growth of the defense.
-.35
-1.41
-.59
-.48
-1.46
-1.20
-1.02
Our freaking average time of possession was 70 seconds!!!!!!!!!!
The offense when it poops it's pants literally does to our defense what it is designed to do to other teams defenses. Our players get exhausted, our coaches don't have time to make good adjustments and when they do, the players do NOT have enough time to put them into practice. Everyone is loving up Heupel to the point of being scared of losing him that they ignore the fact he is slowing down the growth of the defense.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 3:15 pm to BurgTiger
Which makes me question why we insist on using an undersized RB in an up tempo offense.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 3:36 pm to the808bass
Pretty sure that Crockett got more snaps than Witter in the LSU debacle.
As it should be. Witter is a 3rd down back.
As it should be. Witter is a 3rd down back.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 3:59 pm to JesusQuintana
Witter had 36. Crockett had 23.
Posted on 10/7/16 at 4:11 pm to the808bass
Hmmm, well thanks for the correction. I actually turned the game off at halftime and was pretty drunk by the second quarter.
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