re: ESPN and Missouri

Demise. We aren't a power, you can think that and I will agree with you no matter what.

I don't really know you think this run is going to last. As great as it is, it still lacks a lot. Such as CCG wins, winning a conference outright, etc....

Teams don't tread water they get better or they regress. It is nearly impossible for a team to reach the mountain top without being there before. These arent assumptions these are statistical facts

What does pointing out 0-4 as a fact become head coach hating? I thought this place might be above TB and PM but maybe I am wrong?

Look at Oregon in the last 8 years. I have read the threads and ppl like to say we are like Oregon. Okay but they have CCG wins and two NC appearances so no we aren't.

If you have a lot of wins, but no conference titles, send players to the pro's. you haven't arrived you are just calling Mizzou a farm club.

Who in the hell has said we've arrived? I don't believe I've read that once. What has been said, and I'll repeat it is that Pinkel is doing a fantastic job despite the long list of limitations our program has.

Our program could definitely improve, but don't think for a second there is not a long list of programs that would love to be in our shoes. We can get better, but the coach is about as far from the problem as could possibly be.

When did pointing out we've won 4 divisions, a boatload of games and sent a bunch if kids high in the draft become coach worship?

There is one guy on this board that is irrational. You can certainly point out our shortcomings without being so.

I havent read here where I or others said its all or even somewhat GP's fault. Interesting tidbit though.

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And here comes the if you dont blow GP 24/7 you hate him crowd.

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Interesting perspective from a poster who joined less than two weeks ago.

It certainly won't be easy to win the East again this year, but I'm still interested on why you think the team will be less this year than it was last year. We have a favorable schedule and a lot more coming back than we did last year when we still gutted out a lot of close games to win the East. The ability to win close games consistently can separate us from lot of programs. Win ugly, just win.

I'm excited by the talent that has been redshirted or is ready to start. How good can Harris, Loud and Hatley be? They have big shoes to fill. I want to see Brantley as part of a Jumbo package with the rock in his hand in short yardage situations, smashing into the line and scoring TD's or getting tough first downs.

We have two CB's who might vie for the best pair in the SEC in Penton and Dennis. Scherer really grew as a the season progressed. How good can he become?

I'm looking forward to seeing Maty in his 2nd year as a starter and gauging his progress. Pinkel's QB's have always grown a lot in their 2nd year as starters. I also want to see who steps up at WR. We have talent there, now is the time for them to show it.

I find it interesting that we've done this with talent the rating services either completely missed or underestimated. Since it's been happening for years now, I believe it's not luck.

The 2015 recruiting class still has the possibility of being Pinkel's best.

It's also a valid discussion as a separate thread to discuss what it will take to win a conference championship in specificity, other than recruiting or coaching sucks. Two more high-talent recruits a year might be all it takes. That would certainly raise our rankings. Maybe that starts with the 2015 class.

We have a lot to be optimistic about. Where will we potentially fall off and why?

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I havent read here where I or others said its all or even somewhat GP's fault. Interesting tidbit though.

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exactly, when you talk about what it takes to get "better" the conversation inevitably winds up leading to coaching, now is that one thing, no, it's a combination of areas mostly involving 3 things, recruitment, tactics and player development. If you break down coaches who win conferences they generally do two of those things extremely well, or in a lessor conference just excelling at one might be enough . History has shown that Pinkel will not be much better than average at two of them and the other may simply be enough. Still you don't see top programs relying heavily on the last area, after all when you go 3 deep at 4 and 5 star talent, how good do you really have to be at developing players.

Yes those are somewhat broad areas, "player development" may include guidance in the form of mentoring, either way it is the one area that Pinkel is better than average at. As for the histrionics of recruiting, the relevant point is "IS he a elite or power level recruiter"? the obvious answer is no, and it's not like we need "more time" to find out, we know this from past results.

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There maybe a handful of coaches that could do a better job than GP, but I guarantee you the list of coaches that wouldn't do as well is infinitely longer.

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You make good points. Facilities have to be improved.

As to coaches who would do a better job, first, remove those who wouldn't take a job at Missouri under any circumstances, then further reduce it by coaches who still have tread left on the tire (no Bill Snyders). To those who think there are better coaches remaining, show me that list and let's discuss them.