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re: Do you feel bad about the US dropping the atomic bombs on Japan?
Posted on 2/25/15 at 4:27 pm to JustGetItRight
Posted on 2/25/15 at 4:27 pm to JustGetItRight
quote:
The original target was Kokura but there was no storm. It was obscured by clouds and smoke from an overnight fire raid against a nearby city. They made three runs before diverting to the predetermined secondary target of Nagasaki.
They were going to make a radar drop against Nagasaki, which could be considered a judgement call, but they found enough clear skies to make a visual attack instead.
In reality, Kokura was saved and Nagasaki doomed because the strike package was late. One of the B-29s never made the rendezvous and Bockscar disobeyed orders and waited too long for it to show. Had they followed orders and left on time, they would have hit the original target (two B-29s had already flown ahead and checked the weather).
There you go ... that's right. I had forgotten why Kokura was not second. But Kokura was not going to be the third, even after having been passed-over as the second. Sapporo was going to be the third and would have been had Truman had another bomb ready to drop five days later - which he didn't. There is some debate as to how long before a third bomb would have been made ready but Truman wanted to bomb his way through Japan until they surrendered. Remember, there was a long lull between the dropping of Fat Man and the time Japan actually surrendered.
The original list was as follows:
1) Kyoto (removed from list for historical/cultural reasons by US Secretary of War, Henry L. Stimson)
2) Hiroshima (became #1 because we had bombed it very little unto that point in time)
3) Yokohama (industrial city, it was too bombed-out to give a good post bombing account of the effects)
4) Kokura (had been spared major bombing so bomb could be used there as a test case)
5) Nagasaki (spared conventional bombings as well)
6) Sapporo (untouched so they considered it perfect for the third bomb which was going to be another Fat Man because they had no more Little Boys)
7) Niigata (was next on the list and along with Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Kokura it had been spared major conventional bombing runs so the A-bomb could be used on a relatively pristine municipality)
This post was edited on 2/25/15 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 2/25/15 at 4:45 pm to OBReb6
My Grandfather fought in the Pacific and would never talk about it. When I asked him once about this - he looked me square in the face, and with sadness, said it saved lives. The horrors of war weighed on him at times, though he stayed a career soldier. I didn't want to see him like that, so I never brought it up again.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 5:10 pm to OBReb6
No, because the fire bombings of Tokyo killed more people than Hiroshima. Japan just have to have the mighty fist of God come there way and then they'd surrender.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 5:57 pm to scrooster
quote:
They were going to make a radar drop against Nagasaki, which could be considered a judgement call, but they found enough clear skies to make a visual attack instead.
Approximately 9 seconds according to the bombardier.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 7:11 pm to OBReb6
quote:
Posted by OBReb6
Just finished watching a documentary on Hiroshima. I don't feel bad, in the slightest.
Ironically dropping a couple baby nukes on Japan saved millions of Japanese lives. We were going to invade with the full might of our military and their industrial power had already been neutrialized. Their citizens had been instructed to fight to the death..... We saved jap lives.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:07 pm to OBReb6
I've known a lot of Americans who felt emphatically resolute that nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki was evil. I used the word "felt" emphatically. As with a lot of socio-political issues no measure of reason could sway them. They felt it was evil. It disturbed their amygdalae; to hell with a frontal lobe.
In my opinion the chiefest obstacle to their ability to consider the matter objectively was simply this: We who were born after 1945 have ALL been reared to "know" that using nuclear weapons against humans is a mega no-no.
And so be it.
But Harry Truman, et al, had not been so educated. No American in 1945 had ever been told by a parent, a teacher, a minister, a book, a documentary, or whatever, to NOT use nuclear weapons on people.
It's as simple as this really.
In my opinion the chiefest obstacle to their ability to consider the matter objectively was simply this: We who were born after 1945 have ALL been reared to "know" that using nuclear weapons against humans is a mega no-no.
And so be it.
But Harry Truman, et al, had not been so educated. No American in 1945 had ever been told by a parent, a teacher, a minister, a book, a documentary, or whatever, to NOT use nuclear weapons on people.
It's as simple as this really.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:09 pm to OBReb6
For the individuals and families killed, yes. For the perservation of American lives, NO.
I have been to Hiroshima. Its an interesting place. Having stood at ground zero, its eery.
I have been to Hiroshima. Its an interesting place. Having stood at ground zero, its eery.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:17 pm to Tiguar
quote:
Tiguar
Too bad this line of thought won't be applied to Muslims, ISIS and the shiteholes they inhabit. A lot of the same justification applies.
This post was edited on 2/25/15 at 10:18 pm
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:17 pm to OBReb6
No I do not feel bad. After all of the atrocities committed by the Japanese Army throughout the war not a whole lot can make you feel bad for them.
Also, when you think about it, dropping that nuke saved many lives. If the United States had invaded Japan it is highly unlikely that Japan would have surrendered before a full, complete US victory. This would have resulted in countless Americans lost and an astronomical amount of Japanese casualties.
TLDR; I dont feel bad & dropping the nukes saved lives.
Also, when you think about it, dropping that nuke saved many lives. If the United States had invaded Japan it is highly unlikely that Japan would have surrendered before a full, complete US victory. This would have resulted in countless Americans lost and an astronomical amount of Japanese casualties.
TLDR; I dont feel bad & dropping the nukes saved lives.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:21 pm to OBReb6
Nope that's war. Wish we would get off the pussification of America mindset and destroy frickers. You go to war to win. You fricking finish no matter what or who you kill.. Bomb the whole city..
Those days are long gone though.
Those days are long gone though.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:36 pm to Auburn4three
I don't feel bad in the slightest but our status as the only country to ever actually do the deed certainly complicates our position in regard to anti-proliferation treaties.
Posted on 2/26/15 at 12:13 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Don't start no shite, won't be no shite
This!!! They bombed Pearl Harbor. We weren't even in the fight. Bitch move. We even warned them and offered a chance at surrender before hand. Basically told them we were gonna put our big American Cowboy boot of revenge up their arse so far, the Emperor would have a Texas accent. They told us to get fricked. Really told the US frick you. We said....
NO!!!! frick YOU!!!!! BOOOOmotherfrickingOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMfingOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Then asked them again and they said suck it. So...we said no. LOUDLY!!!!!!!
I think it's funny as shite. They came at us hard with all the had. We fricking put the all time of world history smackthefrickdown on them.
Posted on 2/26/15 at 12:53 am to OBReb6
Man I got all this white guilt. Where can I dispose of it?
Posted on 2/26/15 at 1:43 am to MSUbulldogs03
quote:
War is not fun, and one cannot win a war playing nice. For some reason people today have lost sight of this.
Have a god damn up vote sir
This country has forgotten this and we are/will pay for it
Posted on 2/26/15 at 3:37 am to Tiguar
quote:
Tiguar
Up voted & bookmarked.
quote:
Too bad this line of thought won't be applied to Muslims, ISIS and the shiteholes they inhabit. A lot of the same justification applies.
Absolutely agree
quote:
This country has forgotten this and we are/will pay for it
Without a doubt, unfortunately.
Posted on 2/26/15 at 8:44 am to TheJunction
quote:
Also, when you think about it, dropping that nuke saved many lives. If the United States had invaded Japan it is highly unlikely that Japan would have surrendered before a full, complete US victory. This would have resulted in countless Americans lost and an astronomical amount of Japanese casualties.
This. People forget that the conventional bombing campaign killed around 1,000,000 Japanese citizens. They're no less dead than the people killed by the atom bomb and far more numerous.
This post was edited on 2/26/15 at 8:45 am
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