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re: SEC Network: Friend or Foe

Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:20 pm to
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34346 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:20 pm to
I honestly don't get how anyone can be against it.

Even if you were REALLY against expansion, and you hate it because expansion made it possible, what was the better solution?

I mean, is anyone ok with the SEC making less money per team than the B1G, B12, and PAC?

Because that would be the case if the SEC was still under the 2009 contract without any expansion look-ins.
Posted by NELA LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2011
1167 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:23 pm to
Homework assignment for the uninformed - a lot of questions can be answered by reading through the SEC Network FAQ available on their website.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
55048 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:29 pm to
quote:

(maybe UK)


UK had one of the 5 most valuable Tier III deals because of their brand status and basketball. In basketball the new network will not give UK that kind of coverage. On the flip side, they will get UK's baseball, softball, w basketball, and volleyball games out there. Not sure how it affects soccer as both Cats and Cocks play in CUSA there.

quote:

For minor sports sure for a single game it is better to be on ESPN2, but since you only get a a game or two on there every season OVERALL you get more exposure having EVERY game on the SECN.


Yes and no.

100% of USA > 100% of SEC

Sure it would be great if more in the footprint can watch more stuff you get more local exposure, but if that local exposure means no more national exposure, then you are screwed.

The biggest example of the is w basketball. Top to bottom the SEC probably has the nest w basketball in the country. TAMU benefits from being in this and they have an established program that gets some national exposure. Now suppose TAMU vs UT goes from being a national game to one on SEC TV (and say Uconn vs Duke gets that spot now on ESPN or ESPN2) then the SEC just got shut out of national recruiting exposure. Sure more in the SEC can now see it, but at the cost of kids outside the footprint now seeing Uconn.

If TAMU lost national recruiting to say Baylor or California that is not good long term for TAMU.
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:39 pm to
quote:

Now suppose TAMU vs UT goes from being a national game to one on SEC TV (and say Uconn vs Duke gets that spot now on ESPN or ESPN2) then the SEC just got shut out of national recruiting exposure.

From reading this, I take it that it is your opinion the network will be a massive failure or you don't understand what they are doing. The concept is not relegated to only the SEC states. In fact, ESPN's stated goal is a national network that has as many subscribers as ESPNU. ESPN2 is in 97.7m homes. ESPNU is in 74.5m (65.19% of households with television). It's a difference but it's not particularly major like you are suggesting.

The cable providers that have signed on have all placed it in the basic/basic+ tier so far meaning it will be national. The only difference is how much the cable companies will pay per subscriber by state.

Edit: update for '13 numbers
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 4:45 pm
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34346 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:46 pm to
quote:

UK had one of the 5 most valuable Tier III deals because of their brand status and basketball.


Sure, but is that brand enough to float an entire national network? I really don't think so. Kansas is in a conference that would allow such a network and what they have is all local.

quote:

100% of USA > 100% of SEC



The SECN is meant to be a national network like the B1G Net, and it will be thanks to Dish deal.

Just because the business plan is contingent on milking the base, getting national distribution is also a priority. Hence one price for cable companies within the footprint, and a much lower price for cable companies outside the footprint.

Greater national exposure for one game (a game-since its not football-that the national doesn't really care about) is not better than EVERY basketball game getting to fans of the SEC.

I would agree if every baseball and basketball game in the SEC was on ESPN1/2 currently then the conference is getting screwed on exposure with the SECN. But that is not the case.

Overall once the network hits more SEC games (of every type of sport) will be broadcasted than ever before. That is huge.

EDIT: the great tmc94 beat me to it, with real numbers even. Thanks TMC!
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 4:47 pm
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

Overall once the network hits more SEC games (of every type of sport) will be broadcasted than ever before. That is huge.

They announced soccer and volleyball numbers earlier today:

· 40 Women’s Volleyball games on SEC Network
· 25 Women’s Soccer games on SEC Network
· 10 Women’s Volleyball games on ESPNU
· 5 Women’s Soccer games on ESPNU

The current ESPN inventory is not necessarily being reduced. The games that weren't making the Family already will just be moved to SECN.
Posted by cardboardboxer
Member since Apr 2012
34346 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 4:52 pm to
quote:

The current ESPN inventory is not necessarily being reduced. The games that weren't making the Family already will just be moved to SECN.



Thank for you saying it so clearly. This is the bottom line.

They only way you can argue the SEC Network is a "foe" is if you are a B1G fan.
Posted by bgator85
Sarasota
Member since Aug 2007
6025 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:00 pm to
I think a lot of my concern is that content Gators normally had on TV is going to be put online.

If I went through and broke it down by sport UF gets a lot of TV time in Florida. Volleyball alone had 10 games on TV. It will be interesting to see how they divide time amongst the schools.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 5:13 pm
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
55048 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:01 pm to
quote:

I take it that it is your opinion the network will be a massive failure


No, I think it will be a very big financial success (not what Clay Travis was projecting success) that should keep it competitive with the B1G and PAC. Having said that, I think it will come at a price, and that is not helping the non football sports at the national level.

quote:

In fact, ESPN's stated goal is a national network that has as many subscribers as ESPNU


Yet they will meet resistance selling premium carriage outside the SEC footprint and that is where the devil is in the details.

quote:

The only difference is how much the cable companies will pay per subscriber by state.


Ding, ding, ding!

Inside the SEC they wanted 3.00 and they will probably settle around 1.00 (in line with the BTN)

Outside is the big ???? They wanted 1.00 or more but when the dust settles they may have to give it away at a nominal rate (like 5 cents to 15 cents outside SEC footprint states) just to get it picked up. The biggest question will be if they can get premium for split states :

Georgia, high percentage yes
Kentucky , high percentage yes (Remember BTN is in KY at FREE or 5 cents)
South Carolina, might be 75 cents on the SEC dollar
Florida, might be 50 cents or 75 cents on SEC dollar
Texas, might be 50 cents or 75 cents on SEC dollar

Non SEC states :
B1G footprint states : 5 cents to 15 cents carriage
PAC footprint : 5 cents to 15 cents carriage
ACC footprint : 25 cents carriage in south, not much form ND or BC or SU or Pitt markets.
Big East would be the hardest push with so many pro teams and sports

The issue is you need enough folks in the non SEC footprints to get them to carry it in the first place. I like TCM but Comcast bumped it up to the higher premium level and I am not going to pay 20 dollars a month more just for TCM. Sports value is in the live feed content but is is a small part of the entire US market. Will some little old lady in Pasadena pick up the SEC network if it is placed in the channels that cost 30 bucks more per month.

I would love for things to go a la carte but it will never happen because Disney would lose too much leverage.
Posted by Jagd Tiger
The Kinder, Gentler Jagd
Member since Mar 2014
18139 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:04 pm to
As with any deal with the devil, the devil is in the detail. We would hope that the Slive suit brigade would be up to the task of making sure the Conference's interests are covered and insured down to the last detail, so do you trust the Slive suits? The old man doesn't miss many tricks.

While I have nothing against CSS or any other of the small regional carriers, let's face it, one thing ESPN knows how to do right is produce and broadcast a college sports event, they have the experience here and as long as they apply the same kind of effort and quality standards they have put into their own channels, we can expect some good work in technical coverage. Better than you would get from some small network or a do it yourself production that is common for some schools events.

Some here seem to forget that ESPN still has the rights to pick up an event and put it on their prime networks, so it's not like even IF there are some areas of the country that don't have SECN, the major events will somehow now get less coverage, nope not gonna happen and you can be sure the suits have already thought of this and probably a few thousand other things.

Another misconception seems to go something like now you are paying more for something you weren't paying for in the past, this just doesn't really even make any sense when you stop to think about it. You have always been paying for what you watch one way or the other, carriers are constantly working and reworking deals for distribution rights, you may be paying for 20 food channels that you might watch all the time or never watch, either way you are still paying for them. Until pure ala carte ppv becomes a reality, this will not change, the only real difference now is that you will just have one station to check first for your SEC events, and if the SECN promo's are to be believed , in almost every case there will be more coverage now, not less.

Well I'm from Mo. so for me, seeing is believing, but one reason we are now in the SEC is because we expect things like this network deal to get put together the right way, **fingers crossed**, *(in Slive we trust)*..

Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
58166 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:11 pm to
quote:

If I went through and broke it down by sport UF gets a lot of TV time in Florida. Volleyball alone had 10 games on TV.


ok and now there are going to be a minimum of 50 SEC volleyball matches on TV.

as long as UF stays good they will easily end up w/at least 10 matches on TV and probably more due to conference matchups.

on top of that if they arent on TV you'll be able to stream it.

how is that depriving you of content?
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 5:13 pm
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
55048 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:18 pm to
quote:

I have nothing against CSS or any other of the small regional carriers, let's face it, one thing ESPN knows how to do right is produce and broadcast a college sports event


Production is not the same as the pipeline

ESPN and FOX produce product but they are not pipelines

Cable and satellite are not producers but they are the pipelines



ESPN can produce product all day but it is not worth 2 dead flies if no pipeline carries the finished product. For some reason folks on the street always seem to think ESPN is in the transmission business.
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:23 pm to
quote:

Inside the SEC they wanted 3.00 and they will probably settle around 1.00 (in line with the BTN)

SBD quoted it at $1.30
quote:

Outside is the big ???? They wanted 1.00 or more

again SBD quoted it at $0.25

It sounds like you are just fearing monsters under the bed tbh. The prices are quite reasonable and most providers will likely get it done prior to the season. As of today, the SECN would have about 20m subscribers already. Honestly most of the concerns in this thread are more due to misunderstanding than actual problems.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
55048 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:26 pm to
quote:

Volleyball alone had 10 games on TV.


quote:

50 SEC volleyball matches on TV.


quote:

UF stays good they will easily end up w/at least 10 matches on TV


Not sure I buy that. 13 SEC schools (Vandy has no team)

50 / 13 = 3.8 (roughly 4 games per team on average)
Say the good teams get double, average get 4, and weaker ones get 2. 8 < 10

In addition, if they move the Gators to SEC TV that opens a slot on ESPN or ESPN 2 for say Penn State vs Texas or Notre Dame vs California. Gators just got marginalized on the national level even tho they go more viewers on the SEC level.
Posted by ProjectP2294
South St. Louis city
Member since May 2007
70888 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:29 pm to
quote:

50 / 13 = 3.8 (roughly 4 games per team on average)
Say the good teams get double, average get 4, and weaker ones get 2. 8 < 10


Those numbers don't work. You aren't taking into account that two teams are broadcast at the same time.
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

as long as UF stays good they will easily end up w/at least 10 matches on TV and probably more due to conference matchups.

they announced the actual 30 soccer games (25 on SECN and 5 on ESPNU). 9 of those 30 are conference tournament games so no teams scheduled.

But the 21 scheduled include all schools and every one is a conference matchup meaning a total of 42 appearances split between the 14 schools. The volleyball slate hasn't been set but I'm assuming that will be another day or two.

"An additional slate of soccer and volleyball games, to be announced at a later date, will be carried on the SEC Network’s digital platforms"

ETA: also interesting to note is this: "This season’s matchups will increase from a total of 14 events in 2013 to 80 events in 2014." So there will actually be one more game on ESPNU in '14 as compared to '13 (10 volleyball, 5 soccer)
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 5:36 pm
Posted by bgator85
Sarasota
Member since Aug 2007
6025 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:33 pm to
quote:

as long as UF stays good they will easily end up w/at least 10 matches on TV and probably more.


I just saw that UF announced that there will be 10 games on SECN/ESPNU so that actually works out. Only 5 soccer games which is down a few from normal, but that's fine. As long as we get close to the same airtime we had on Sun then it is ok. We will see what happens in other sports, I just don't want to see content normally on TV get pushed online.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 5:36 pm
Posted by tmc94
Member since Sep 2012
11559 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:40 pm to
how many soccer games do you normally have aired? And is that just local Fox Sports?

Florida being good will almost certainly have 7-8 (quarters, semis, and final all broadcast). A&M being the defending champs only having 3 is kind of job imo but we don't have any locally aired now (they are all distributed via the web) so it's still a big improvement imo.

As I said earlier in the thread, I expect all our games to now be available via digital platform which is a huge improvement from a recruiting standpoint. That's something you can sell pretty easily. "Mom/Dad, you and your friends and family will be able to see every single one of your daughters games." The accessibility changes the game entirely because almost all ISPs carry ESPN3.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
55048 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:41 pm to
quote:

Those numbers don't work. You aren't taking into account that two teams are broadcast at the same time.


You are not taking into account non conference games.

Take Kentucky volleyball. Sure they will broadcast some SEC but UK plays UL every year and betting that will count as 1 for UK. They also usually schedule a B1G school and a PAC school and those may get broadcast as well. UK usually sponsors a tournament as well which also may get a broadcast. I was simplifying it but that was my thinking. If it is non conference, it probably counts against that 50.
Posted by ProjectP2294
South St. Louis city
Member since May 2007
70888 posts
Posted on 5/14/14 at 5:44 pm to
With the schools picking up the infrastructure tab themselves, they will become more attractive broadcast options across the ESPN/ABC platform.

I think you'll be more likely to see a random late addition SEC baseball game on ESPNU or 2 than one from another conference. Because the production costs will be lower since they're doing the game anyway for the digital network.

Basically, the SEC will be providing way more filler programming for all ESPN networks.
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