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re: So if Alabama 'murderball' is the best way to win, why did they get away from it?
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:38 am to CapstoneGrad06
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:38 am to CapstoneGrad06
quote:
I should be more specific then. Finding the balance we saw with Kiffin or Sark. Going back to that. Not the McElwain offense.
I get what you and SoG are saying, I tend to agree with you.
However, there are people saying that Alabama is going back to the days of McElwain.
Hell, any time someone brings up the Alabama quarterback situation, you have Bama fans talking about how they won a title with Greg McElroy.
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Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:38 am to Tornado Alley
quote:
Golding isn't to blame for y'all managing just 16 and 18 points in the 2018 and 2021 national championship games, respectively.
Golding wasn’t the DC for either. Hell he wasn’t even there in 2016/17. That was Pruitt.
He was co-DC in 2018/19. And no, that wasn’t all on Golding. That was on an RPO first offense that was completely figured out by Clemson.
Edit: Assumed you meant the two Clemson games.
And no, Golding wasn’t to blame in 2021/22 title game either. That was easily his best defense. Which made it more perplexing his unit was so unorganized in 2022/23.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 10:42 am
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:44 am to MondayNightPavs
quote:
I think what he’s asking is, if it made sense to get away from murderball (which his quotes explain why it did) and he had success under the more spread out RPO system, why is he now saying they need to return to murderball? What changed?
They aren't nearly as good at WR this year as they were from 2017-2021.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:44 am to MondayNightPavs
quote:
I think what he’s asking is, if it made sense to get away from murderball (which his quotes explain why it did) and he had success under the more spread out RPO system, why is he now saying they need to return to murderball? What changed?
He ain't gotta generational talent at QB and needs a way to win with a game manager.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:44 am to CapstoneGrad06
Just from looking at the numbers, you've been really pass heavy starting in 2019 and that has carried through until now. You had more pass attempts than rush attempts in 2021, but that can be explained by not having as many games that were over with in the fourth and you were just milking the clock.
Your best back last year was not a between the tackles back. I think N. Harris, D. Harris, Jacobs, were all pretty good at that. I like B. Rob, but he was probably a notch below those guys. The guys you have now may be better.
Your best back last year was not a between the tackles back. I think N. Harris, D. Harris, Jacobs, were all pretty good at that. I like B. Rob, but he was probably a notch below those guys. The guys you have now may be better.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:47 am to bamameister
quote:
Are you deaf and blind? BAMA won the National Championship in 2020 playing physical football. The problem is more people over here are better at insulting people than actually grasping the Xs and Os of schemes.
Again, 2020 Alabama was nothing close to the "murderball" offenses that won championships with players like McElroy, Coker, and Sims.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:53 am to Tornado Alley
quote:
Golding isn't to blame for y'all managing just 16 and 18 points in the 2018 and 2021 national championship games, respectively.
How do you know? Missed tackle, poor fundamentals, playing on our heels, not putting pressure on true freshman QBs from Clemson, not stopping anything over the middle, not holding the edge when you have some of the greatest edge defensive players in the country, not getting players lined up at the snap, complicated terminology from the sidelines, interior LBers that can't cover anything over the middle, to name a few of the hilarious screw-ups BAMA fans have been privy to these last 5 seasons.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:54 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
However, there are people saying that Alabama is going back to the days of McElwain.
Please provide links to where people are saying this.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:56 am to bamameister
quote:
Golding isn't to blame for y'all managing just 16 and 18 points in the 2018 and 2021 national championship games, respectively.
quote:
How do you know?
Well obviously, the defensive coordinator isn't responsible for scoring points.
But carry on with your lectures about how the rest of us don't know anything.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:58 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Well obviously, the defensive coordinator isn't responsible for scoring points.
But carry on with your lectures about how the rest of us don't know anything.
How many points? That would depend on both sides of the LOS. Hell, Les Miles is laughing at you.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:00 am to bamameister
quote:
Hell, Les Miles is laughing at you.
Yeah, he just stuck with "murderball" permanently and it got him fired.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:05 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Yeah, he just stuck with "murderball" permanently and it got him fired.
After a national championship, 3 SEC Championships, and losing only ONE OOC in the regular season, and in year 12 on the job, as head coach. A running game and great defense matters and always will.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 11:06 am
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:08 am to MondayNightPavs
Personnel - plain and simple
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:21 am to Pastor Mike
I think this gives a pretty good idea of the general difference in the last 2 years, the previous 5-6 and then the early Saban era.......with Rees' tenure as Notre Dame dropped in.
It's not a perfect comparison because a lot of these seasons had coaches tailoring things to their QBs/personnel (DaBoll in 2017 with Jalen as an example), but it's a pretty good general visual.
We will not be returning to the 2009-2012 offense. We also won't be doing what BoB did the last 2 years. The goal is to look more like what we were when Saban brought Kiffin in to mesh pro-style concepts with RPO stuff, which we did (in different varieties) from 2014-2020. Then BoB came in and basically ignored 2/3 of that "Alabama Playbook" Saban likes to talk about and just ran Patriots 2009 stuff, but without 5-10 year veterans at WR (Galloway, Moss, Welker) to read and adjust routes on the fly.
Rees ran a lot of RPO/Read Option at Notre Dame, but he also ran a lot of pre-called run plays where the OL are not just pass blocking regardless of the run/pass read. Powers with pulling guards, sweeps, stretch plays.....and then a lot of misdirection off of it (with WR/TE motions attached). We'll be motioning guys all over the place, misdirection, all that stuff that Sark and Lane had at the heart of their system. Rees does as well. BoB did none of it. That'll be the biggest difference, IMHO.
As for the "murderball" thing, I don't think of that as an offensive system. I always thought of it as the ability to line up and squeeze the life out of a game when you so choose by controlling the LOS, eating clock and being able to get positive gains in the run game when the opponent was relatively sure you were going to run. We have been unable to do that the last 2 seasons. The hope is we regain some of that this season with our OL/RB personnel and a play caller who calls games in a way that might lead to the OL/RB repping those situations in practice/games a whole lot more. It will not be a return to running on 3rd and 6 from the 44 yard line because you feel fine punting even if you don't get it. Those days are never coming back.
It's not a perfect comparison because a lot of these seasons had coaches tailoring things to their QBs/personnel (DaBoll in 2017 with Jalen as an example), but it's a pretty good general visual.
We will not be returning to the 2009-2012 offense. We also won't be doing what BoB did the last 2 years. The goal is to look more like what we were when Saban brought Kiffin in to mesh pro-style concepts with RPO stuff, which we did (in different varieties) from 2014-2020. Then BoB came in and basically ignored 2/3 of that "Alabama Playbook" Saban likes to talk about and just ran Patriots 2009 stuff, but without 5-10 year veterans at WR (Galloway, Moss, Welker) to read and adjust routes on the fly.
Rees ran a lot of RPO/Read Option at Notre Dame, but he also ran a lot of pre-called run plays where the OL are not just pass blocking regardless of the run/pass read. Powers with pulling guards, sweeps, stretch plays.....and then a lot of misdirection off of it (with WR/TE motions attached). We'll be motioning guys all over the place, misdirection, all that stuff that Sark and Lane had at the heart of their system. Rees does as well. BoB did none of it. That'll be the biggest difference, IMHO.
As for the "murderball" thing, I don't think of that as an offensive system. I always thought of it as the ability to line up and squeeze the life out of a game when you so choose by controlling the LOS, eating clock and being able to get positive gains in the run game when the opponent was relatively sure you were going to run. We have been unable to do that the last 2 seasons. The hope is we regain some of that this season with our OL/RB personnel and a play caller who calls games in a way that might lead to the OL/RB repping those situations in practice/games a whole lot more. It will not be a return to running on 3rd and 6 from the 44 yard line because you feel fine punting even if you don't get it. Those days are never coming back.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 11:28 am
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:27 am to SidewalkTiger
quote:
I get what you and SoG are saying, I tend to agree with you.
However, there are people saying that Alabama is going back to the days of McElwain.
So you just wanted to troll
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:32 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
I think this gives a pretty good idea of the general difference in the last 2 years, the previous 5-6 and then the early Saban era.......with Rees' tenure as Notre Dame dropped in.
It's not a perfect comparison because a lot of these seasons had coaches tailoring things to their QBs/personnel (DaBoll in 2017 with Jalen as an example), but it's a pretty good general visual.
As I said in another post, I don't think BoB and Sark were that different in terms of balance. You passed more the last two years because you didn't get into the milking of the clock as much as you did in 2020 and 2019.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 11:33 am
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:38 am to koreandawg
quote:
I don't think BoB and Sark were that different in terms of balance. You passed more the last two years because you didn't get into the milking of the clock as much as you did in 2020 and 2019.
They weren't that different in terms of overall balance (pass vs run) but they were very different in terms of in-game balance and game flow and building plays off each other.
BoB was also much worse this past year in terms of Run/Pass than he was in 2021.
1st Half splits
2021 - 49.3% pass, 50.7% run
2022 - 61.4% pass, 38.6% run
Sark was pretty balanced in his splits in his 2 seasons. A lot of that because Sark loved stealing 5-6 yards with easy throws on 1st down (motion a WR/RB and find an easy open spot for a quick throw). BoB didn't do that because he didn't use motion, so there were a whole lot more "run a RPO run, get into 2nd and 8, throw the next 2 downs out of 4-wide with a straight drop". Just different play-calling styles.
1st Half splits
2019 - 55.9% pass, 44.1% run
2020 - 55.1% pass, 44.9% run
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 11:42 am
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:43 am to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
1st Half splits
2021 - 49.3% pass, 50.7% run
2022 - 61.4% pass, 38.6% run
Gibbs sucked at running between the tackles, but was good at receiving. I don't really recall anyone else in your backfield being someone to be feared as a power runner. Maybe he didn't have what he needed.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:45 am to AUriptide
quote:
Saban could say anything and gumps would say it's true.
Saban could say anything and the barntards would say it's false. #delusuonal
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:47 am to koreandawg
quote:
don't really recall anyone else in your backfield being someone to be feared as a power runner.
Jase McClellan was way underutilized. Really until late in the year at Ole Miss.
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