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re: So if Alabama 'murderball' is the best way to win, why did they get away from it?
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:47 am to SidewalkTiger
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:47 am to SidewalkTiger
I have read this entire thread, and OP is trying to veil his obvious troll attempt in a mountain of obtuseness.
He seems desperate to try to catch Saban in a lie or contradiction.
He seems desperate to try to catch Saban in a lie or contradiction.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 11:48 am
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Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:48 am to koreandawg
quote:
Gibbs sucked at running between the tackles, but was good at receiving. I don't really recall anyone else in your backfield being someone to be feared as a power runner. Maybe he didn't have what he needed.
Well, he didn't even try. Nor did he manipulate defenses with motion, movement or mis-direction to improve the odds of finding gaps and stealing yards. And he had a couple of backs who absolutely had the ability (and showed it on occasion) to be adequate power guys (Jase for one). But his issue wasn't run the ball or not, it was how he ran the ball, how basic everything else was and just the general setup of the offense.
He is what he is - he runs an offense that is based around guys making reads of routes pre-play and mid-play and the QB making the same read. It's a style of offense that can still work in the NFL with the right personnel (though isn't adaptive, even there, which is why very few teams run it anymore), which is why the Patriots continuously opted for veterans and almost never had young receivers (and of course had Tom Brady). Smart, experienced WRs and one of the smartest QBs of all time were able to mind-sync, see gaps in coverage pre and mid play, both read it in real time and throw/cut to that spot at the same time. When you have that sort of setup, it's a very difficult (nearly impossible) system to stop.
It is a terrible fit for a college offense that cycles through young players every year and has very few players that retain institutional knowledge of the offense and experiences year over year. He didn't adapt at all, and Saban fricked up by bringing him in. It is what it is.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 11:51 am
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:55 am to bamameister
quote:
Najee Harris won the Doak Walker
People forget that he ran for nearly 1,500 yards and scored 26 TDs on the ground in 2020. We could throw and grind it out from multiple formations and offensive sets that season.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 11:56 am
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:03 pm to SidewalkTiger
Saban was very honest about what happened. he said playing Ole Miss a few times under Freeze was a problem. He said it was the one offense they had no answer for so...why not?
The problem with the "basketball on grass" offense is that you MUST have an elite QB and elite receivers and they MUST play well each week because defensively you are gassed. Your offense either scores quick or punts quick. Instead of your defense playing 50 plays they are playing 90. Marv Levy said of the K gun at Buffalo that he didn't realize until years later that all those blown leads were because the D was tired.
Saban didn't need to change, he thought it would make Bama more powerful and it did the opposite and his wake up call was watching UGA the last couple years.
"Joyless Murderball" is the Saban and quite honestly, the Bama way. Run the ball effectively, hit short to intermediate routes but put the offense in the hands of everybody. Keep your defense saved for the 4th qtr. You can't tell me you didn't notice Bama's D giving up last second drives game after game after game the last few years. To the fatigue point. Bama's 3rd down effeciency in the 1st qtr of games was like 5th in the country. It dropped to like 80th or something in the 4th qtr. Yes, you won't see the Tua, Mac, Bryce offense you saw the last few years.
The problem with the "basketball on grass" offense is that you MUST have an elite QB and elite receivers and they MUST play well each week because defensively you are gassed. Your offense either scores quick or punts quick. Instead of your defense playing 50 plays they are playing 90. Marv Levy said of the K gun at Buffalo that he didn't realize until years later that all those blown leads were because the D was tired.
Saban didn't need to change, he thought it would make Bama more powerful and it did the opposite and his wake up call was watching UGA the last couple years.
"Joyless Murderball" is the Saban and quite honestly, the Bama way. Run the ball effectively, hit short to intermediate routes but put the offense in the hands of everybody. Keep your defense saved for the 4th qtr. You can't tell me you didn't notice Bama's D giving up last second drives game after game after game the last few years. To the fatigue point. Bama's 3rd down effeciency in the 1st qtr of games was like 5th in the country. It dropped to like 80th or something in the 4th qtr. Yes, you won't see the Tua, Mac, Bryce offense you saw the last few years.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:09 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Maybe that's just it. He wasn't a college fit, although he seemed to do well enough to get an NFL head coaching job from it at Penn State.
And in the NFL, his offenses were good if he had a capable QB.
I realize you all are at a different standard of expectation than everybody else, but it's not like those coordinators were as bad as Coley.
If this were any other team in college football, no one would be picking them to make the playoff or win the title.
- Lose a Heisman winner, maybe the best QB you've had after having a second round pick, first round pick and first round pick start consecutively before him. Replace with ? We still don't know and it's not because they were all so good previously and in camp it's hard to choose.
- Replace both coordinators with new hires when, at least from a statistical standpoint, both were well above average.
- the talk about the disadvantage you had having the top offensive player and defensive player taken in the draft playing for you last year.
He's the GOAT. He may have this all figured out. Won't be shocked if you win it all again this year.
But I'd say on the doubting himself meter, Saban's higher than he's been since you lost to that non power 5 team in his first year. Not to say that it's extreme doubt, but I do think he's less sure of what the right move is relatively speaking.
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And in the NFL, his offenses were good if he had a capable QB.
I realize you all are at a different standard of expectation than everybody else, but it's not like those coordinators were as bad as Coley.
If this were any other team in college football, no one would be picking them to make the playoff or win the title.
- Lose a Heisman winner, maybe the best QB you've had after having a second round pick, first round pick and first round pick start consecutively before him. Replace with ? We still don't know and it's not because they were all so good previously and in camp it's hard to choose.
- Replace both coordinators with new hires when, at least from a statistical standpoint, both were well above average.
- the talk about the disadvantage you had having the top offensive player and defensive player taken in the draft playing for you last year.
He's the GOAT. He may have this all figured out. Won't be shocked if you win it all again this year.
But I'd say on the doubting himself meter, Saban's higher than he's been since you lost to that non power 5 team in his first year. Not to say that it's extreme doubt, but I do think he's less sure of what the right move is relatively speaking.
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Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:09 pm to CapstoneGrad06
quote:
Golding wasn’t the DC for either. Hell he wasn’t even there in 2016/17. That was Pruitt.
He was co-DC in 2018/19. And no, that wasn’t all on Golding. That was on an RPO first offense that was completely figured out by Clemson.
Edit: Assumed you meant the two Clemson games.
And no, Golding wasn’t to blame in 2021/22 title game either. That was easily his best defense. Which made it more perplexing his unit was so unorganized in 2022/23.
Golding was the co-defensive coordinator in the 2018 championship when Bama only managed to score 16 points.
Golding was the sole defensive coordinator in the 2021 championship when Bama only managed to score 18 points (after scoring 41 points against the same opponent in the previous game).
Another poster said Golding's defense sometimes folded in shootouts, but it is clear some of Bama's major losses during that time weren't shootout style and their O was to blame.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:17 pm to koreandawg
quote:
But I'd say on the doubting himself meter, Saban's higher than he's been since you lost to that non power 5 team in his first year. Not to say that it's extreme doubt, but I do think he's less sure of what the right move is relatively speaking.
This year certainly has the biggest variance in possible outcome of any we've had since 2014 and maybe since 2008.
We have great players, great depth and I think still a pretty solid staff. I like the overall theme of the coaching changes on both sides. There is also a chance that the QB situation never materializes, Rees is a schizophrenic OC and Steele's defenses aren't complex enough (and the DL isn't good enough up the middle) to stop really good offenses (of which we'll play a bunch).
We could be extremely good this season, but we could also be clunky and lose 3-4 games if a lot of the variables go sour because of the difficulty of the schedule. And I don't think anyone truly knows which why it will go.
So basically, we're like a lot of teams between #5-15 or so most years (but with a higher upside). If things go right we can win a national title. If things go wrong we could go to the Outback Bowl. Something in the middle and we probably are a fringe Top 10 team.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:18 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Does Bama have an elite back to ride when going gets tough? How does the OL look?
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:22 pm to TheGhostofCajun
quote:
I have read this entire thread, and OP is trying to veil his obvious troll attempt in a mountain of obtuseness.
He seems desperate to try to catch Saban in a lie or contradiction.
I don't think Saban is contradicting himself because he isn't going back to the days when McElroy and Coker were winning titles.
He says that doesn't work anymore and it doesn't.
Alabama will be more balanced and less quarterback centric but they will still likely need very good production from that position to win a title.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:23 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
Alabama will be more balanced and less quarterback centric but they will still likely need very good production from that position to win a title.
No way!
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:24 pm to Tornado Alley
quote:
Does Bama have an elite back to ride when going gets tough?
I'm very bullish on our offensive backfield. Jase is a very solid player who was underutilized by BoB and had one of his greatest skillsets kind of eclipsed (understandably) when Gibbs came in - catching the ball out of the backfield. Jam Miller is very talented and looked great any opportunity he got last year. And the reports on Justice Haynes are sparkling. McClellan is not going to be a power drive down the field guy, but Haynes has a shot to be if he is what everyone seems to think he is. And I think Jam and Jase are very good 8-10 carry a game guys to have in tandem.
quote:
How does the OL look?
Kind of the key to the whole thing, IMHO. We have quality depth of talented bodies across the line for the first time since 2020. We have 2 1st round picks in Latham and Booker. We have a very experienced, solid center in Seth McLaughlin. The question will be LG and RT. Proctor looks like a typical shows up Day 1 and plays like an NFL tackle type guy, but he has to prove that. Dalcourt is experienced but his career has been up and down, and behind him are a handful of talented R-FR/SO who haven't proven anything yet (Ferguson, Roberts, Pritchett).
Like a lot of this team, there are pieces there that you feel good about individually because of their talent and/or experience, but I really need to see them looking like a gelled unit that knows what they are doing before I really feel great about it.
So you put that sentiment with a total unknown QB situation and 2 new coordinators, and yea it's just a very "who knows" feeling situation. No reason for doom and gloom, because there are pieces everywhere, but far from many certainties (at any position group, frankly).
Other than kicker. I am very confident about our kicking situation. Go figure, right?
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 12:28 pm
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:28 pm to SummerOfGeorge
What about your front seven?
Yes, we all know about Dallas Turner and Jaheim Otis.
Yes, we all know about Dallas Turner and Jaheim Otis.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:32 pm to Tornado Alley
quote:
What about your front seven?
Yes, we all know about Dallas Turner and Jaheim Otis.
Personally I'm pretty concerned about the DL depth. I think our starting unit is very solid (Eboigbe, Oatis, Smith) but behind them is a whole lot of inexperience that didn't nudge itself into the rotation last year....which concerns me about their talent level. The wildcard is the freshman James Smith, but it's silly to rely on a true freshman at DT/DE. If he is able to give 15-20 quality snaps a game that'd be a very big deal for us.
Edges will be very, very good. Turner and Braswell are both experienced and talented. I think the inside guys will be ok, but we still don't (at least as of now) have the sort of elite ILBs we used to have (Georgia has those dudes now). I think Lawson will be very solid and then they'll find a solid other option between Marhsall/Jefferson/Campbell.
The biggest difference, I think, is that we will play much more loose and fast with Steele. I'm not going to shite on Golding like others do, because I think he's incredibly bright and it probably wasn't entirely his fault, but we consistently played like we weren't sure where to go or which step to take. Steele is going to dumb things down and our guys are going to play a helluva lot faster and less nervous, I think. Now, that may backfire at some point if we play somebody who can match us athletically and outschemes us, but in general I expect to see a much looser defensive unit.
Does that mean we'll be better in the aggregate? I dunno. Kirby and Pruitt were great at running complex stuff and being able to communicate it in a way that players got and didn't feel confused all the time. Golding had the complex stuff down pat but struggled with communicating it. I think Steele is great at communicating things but isn't great at in-depth scheme stuff. My personal opinion is that when you have the level of athlete/player that we have, I'd prefer the guy who has adequate scheming ability but is able to get guys to use their athletic abilities to the maximum versus hunting the perfect matchup every play that also leads to playing a step slow and with nervous energy.
But we'll find out soon enough.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:35 pm to SummerOfGeorge
quote:
Now, that may backfire at some point if we play somebody who can match us athletically and outschemes us
The good thing for you is there are only a couple of teams who can do that.
Have you done in-depth dives into any other teams this season?
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:37 pm to Tornado Alley
quote:
The good thing for you is there are only a couple of teams who can do that.
Have you done in-depth dives into any other teams this season?
Agree - which is why I made an addendum to that post noting that for our roster setup, I like the Steele negatives a bit more than the Golding negatives (but think Golding will probably be good for you guys, and I think he is a good long term investment because he'll improve on the communication front).
I haven't really looked at other teams that much. Work is hard, teams rosters are like 50% different each year and quite frankly college football in general isn't as much fun as it used to be (as I think we discussed in the realignment thread yesterday). I do know that we play a bunch of teams with good players on offense and smart coordinators (Texas, Ole Miss, A&M, Tennessee, LSU). We'll be tested quite often.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:38 pm to SidewalkTiger
quote:
with modern offenses. Has that suddenly changed?
offenses.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:38 pm to SummerOfGeorge
Unfortunately, I agree. For me the hardest thing to cope with is the roster turnover.
Maybe we're just growing older and have other things which require our focus.
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:42 pm to Tornado Alley
quote:
Unfortunately, I agree. For me the hardest thing to cope with is the roster turnover.
Maybe we're just growing older and have other things which require our focus.
It's probably a little of both. I still enjoy college football and really enjoy our league, but my focus/attention in the off-season to it is near nil
. The whole kids, job and loving the Braves as much or more than the Tahd contributes to that, for sure. But there is still nothing than a great college football Saturday slate, and that will keep us coming back I imagine.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 12:43 pm
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:45 pm to Pastor Mike
I don't care how "punishing" a back may be - without a powerful OLine, he will be stymied. Murderball requires winning the trenches
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:46 pm to SummerOfGeorge
I suspect we are about the same age.
I still get jazzed for college football. I love rivalry weekend more than many things: all-day, jam-packed rivalry games and upsets. Toss on some BBQ and crack a cold one. What's not to love? I also firmly maintain the very first beer cracked at 8 AM on Labor Day weekend Saturday as Gameday starts up is the best beer of the year. I love tailgating and seeing family and friends. It's a very happy time of year even when we aren't very good.
The games used to mean so much more. But now they're turning into just that: games.
Damn, I'm in a reflecting kind of mood today.
I still get jazzed for college football. I love rivalry weekend more than many things: all-day, jam-packed rivalry games and upsets. Toss on some BBQ and crack a cold one. What's not to love? I also firmly maintain the very first beer cracked at 8 AM on Labor Day weekend Saturday as Gameday starts up is the best beer of the year. I love tailgating and seeing family and friends. It's a very happy time of year even when we aren't very good.
The games used to mean so much more. But now they're turning into just that: games.
Damn, I'm in a reflecting kind of mood today.
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