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re: Which would you rather?
Posted on 5/9/17 at 9:57 am to LanierSpots
Posted on 5/9/17 at 9:57 am to LanierSpots
quote:Au contraire.
We have never won a championship with worse.
Completely different era, of course, and not applicable to the discussion. But you can't say 'never'.
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Posted on 5/9/17 at 10:08 am to LanierSpots
quote:That is almost certainly the case - but we've been burned too often by guys with great "upside" who fail miserably when they get their shot at starting.
Malik Willis has so much more upside that Sean it is not even close
If it were up to me, I wouldn't bother putting an RS on Willis. Let him run the offense this fall, early and often. Obviously we'll want to get Stidham in a good rhythm with the first team, but if the staff thinks Malik can learn the playbook, let him get his reps on the field against GA Southern, Mercer and Mizzou so he can be ready if we need him against UGa and Bama.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 10:25 am to FearlessFreep
See that up vote below your post
I did it
I did it
Posted on 5/9/17 at 10:42 am to TigerProwl24
quote:
Not exactly. We could win big in Stidham's 2nd year..
Right but it's guaranteed we don't win it in year one. In the other situation, I have a guaranteed win in year 1 and a possibility in year 2
So why would I ever not pick a guaranteed win?
This post was edited on 5/9/17 at 10:43 am
Posted on 5/9/17 at 12:07 pm to Weagle25
I will take the wins next year and bet that Stidham comes back for '18.
Sean could be a winning QB, but Gus fricked him by not working more to his skills. I hope that is all over with Lindsey and Borges in town.
Sean could be a winning QB, but Gus fricked him by not working more to his skills. I hope that is all over with Lindsey and Borges in town.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 12:54 pm to Weagle25
quote:
Right but it's guaranteed we don't win it in year one. In the other situation, I have a guaranteed win in year 1 and a possibility in year 2
So why would I ever not pick a guaranteed win?
I simply posed this scenario to gauge the feelings about SW13 starting his senior year and what the reaction would be. A guaranteed win is the obvious choice.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:26 pm to LanierSpots
quote:
quote:
Thank you. I just wanted to gauge how tangible the hate for SW13 is on here and you have provided that sentiment.
If you have paid any attention to my posts on Sean for the past few years, you will know that is totally not the case. I told you guys the first time Sean played for us that he was not our QB and never would be what we needed. I have never swayed from my original statement. Love the kid, just not what we need. You guys roasted me for it and most of you swore he would be the next coming. It was easy to see that he was a bad fit but I guess his epic win against Kentucky made everyone all fuzzy inside.
I understand. Hate was the wrong word to use.
quote:
Malik Willis has so much more upside that Sean it is not even close.
Sean is done. And he should be
Maybe so, and I'm not advocating for SW. I want whoever gives us the best chance to win every game to start at QB. I just think it may be too soon to completely right him off.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:52 pm to TigerProwl24
So in one scenario we are guaranteed a SEC title and title run and in the other we are wishing a QB that led us to a subpar year to return in hopes of possibly winning a SEC title and making a title run?
I'm gonna take the sure thing there.
I'm gonna take the sure thing there.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 1:57 pm to TigerProwl24
quote:
simply posed this scenario to gauge the feelings about SW13 starting his senior year and what the reaction would be. A guaranteed win is the obvious choice.
I would've gone with "how do you feel about the possibility of White starting his senior year if Stidham goes pro?" then.
I'm a big fan of White. Stidham is still obviously the choice for this year. I'm still confident White is a SEC quality starter but obviously injuries are problem for him. I believe if he could stay healthy for a whole year then we can win a championship with him at QB. He can't carry a team like Cam and hopefully Stidham can but with the right pieces we can win with him.
I've heard all the hype with Willis but I haven't really watched him play much so I can't really form my own opinion on him.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 2:00 pm to TigerProwl24
quote:
SW was one of the most efficient passers in the SEC when he was healthy. It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and call someone brittle when you aren't out there scrambling for yards and taking hard licks.
Edit: Not saying that you called him brittle but that is a cause of concern for those that don't think he's a championship QB.
To be clear, I think he plays hard and has some aspects of his game which are impressive. I don't believe he has the physical tools to compete at a championship level in the SEC. He lacks arm strength and down field accuracy. He doesn't run well enough to cover the sins of an average oline which Gus has made a killing off as a OC and Head Coach. His size limits his vision and ability to release quickly. I believe SW is a 7-8 win QB in the SEC west with the talent surrounding him at Auburn. The injuries are also a concern, but I don't believe SW healthy can do much more than what he has already done. We probably win 9 this past year with him healthy.
Posted on 5/9/17 at 2:04 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
But Bamas talent in 2008 wasn't higher than AU has right now, and they were ranked #1 and 10 minutes away from winning the SECCG and playing for a BCSC with John Sarah Jessica Parker Wilson at QB.
The talent of bama's opponents was proportionally less as well. That 2008 bama team had 16 eventual draft picks on it, of which 13 were drafted in the first 3 rounds. When has any SEC team not named Florida had a team with that much talent on it in the last 20 years?
Posted on 5/9/17 at 2:51 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
But Bamas talent in 2008 wasn't higher than AU has right now,
I think you are a little confused, because that team had a ridiculous amount of experience + talent
Tigerman already pointed out the eventual drafted talent, but the experience on that team was 2010 Auburn level
18/22 starters were upperclassmen JR/SR on that '08 team with the 4 non upperclassmen all being future RD1 draft picks
-10/11 starters on offense were JR/SR with the 11th being Julio Jones as a FR (900+ YDs)
-8/11 starters on defense were JR/SR with the 9th/10th/11th being future RD1 Rolando McClain/Donta Hightower/Kareem Jackson
Posted on 5/9/17 at 8:50 pm to GenesChin
quote:That's revisionist history.
I think you are a little confused, because that team had a ridiculous amount of experience + talent
The 2008 Bama team was loaded with talented and unproven Freshmen and experienced and mediocre holdovers from Shula's subpar recruiting classes. Which is a why they were a consensus preseason pick for 3rd or 4th in the SEC West, and had losing streaks against AU (6), LSU (5) and MSU (2). Most media outlets had them losing 4 or 5 during the regular season.
Don't kid yourself - that team went 12-0 through the sheer force of Saban's will.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 8:03 am to FearlessFreep
quote:
Don't kid yourself - that team went 12-0 through the sheer force of Saban's will.
It still had 16 players with NFL talent 13 players with the type of talent which garners 1st-3rd round picks. I bet Auburn has never had 13 1st-3rd round picks on our team at any one time in our history. I haven't done the research though.
To offer an example of what that means. Think about how Adams play this season caused others to play at a higher level. He was only a 3rd round pick. Imagine if our D had 5 other picks 1st-3rd round and our O had 6.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 8:05 am
Posted on 5/10/17 at 12:27 pm to Tigerman97
quote:Which is a tribute to the coaching they got under Saban, and the prestige of the Bama name.
13 players with the type of talent which garners 1st-3rd round picks
Checking Scout's rankings, those 13 first-day guys included almost as many guys who were ranked 2* or lower (4) as they did 4* or higher (5), and of the latter category, only 1 (Andre Smith) played a down for the Tide prior to that '08 season - the other four were true FR/JUCO transfers.
That 2008 team was solid, but "ridiculously talented", from a pure athleticism standpoint? I don't think so.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 2:38 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
That 2008 team was solid, but "ridiculously talented", from a pure athleticism standpoint? I don't think so.
Nobody gets drafted in the first three rounds of the draft that isn't ridiculously talented. You act like the players bama had 2005-2007 were a bunch of scrubs. They had NFL talent then as well, just poorly coached. You are right Saban gets the most out of people, but it helps win games when the most someone has is NFL talent.
One of the real failures of the recruiting services in my mind is we tend to think every 4 star and 5 star that comes in is an NFL type talent. Why? Because the services tell us so. NFL talent is a notch above and harder to spot than most think. Saban is a great coach, but no human being has the ability to outwork their DNA. You either got it or you don't.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 2:53 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
The 2008 Bama team was loaded with talented and unproven Freshmen
18/22 starters were JR/SR players and 9 of those players were eventually drafted. Not sure what type of revisionist history you are reading
quote:
Checking Scout's rankings, those 13 first-day guys included almost as many guys who were ranked 2* or lower
First, recruiting rankings from pre 2008 were garbage, many players never were evaluated and the talent evaluators were nowhere near as good as they are today.
More importantly though, the NFL drafts talent. Saban's coaching may have refined that talent, but you're a fool if you think those guys were not elite talent if they were first day picks
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 3:59 pm to GenesChin
quote:I was going not just by the recruting rankings, but also by the offers they received. Javier Arenas' only offer besides Bama was FAU. Iowa State was the only D1A program to offer James Carpenter out of HS. Rashad Johnson didn't get an offer from any D1A school. Apparenty the coaching staffs across the country didn't think any higher of them than the 'garbage' recruiting services.
First, recruiting rankings from pre 2008 were garbage, many players never were evaluated and the talent evaluators were nowhere near as good as they are today.
quote:And they miss on a lot of those evaluations, too.
More importantly though, the NFL drafts talent.
Bottom line, I defy you to find a 2008 pre-season preview of Bama football that says anything about how 'ridiculously talented' they were, outside of Andre Smith, Rolando McClain and their incoming Freshmen ( here's a representative sample). Hell, even the SEC coaches didn't think much of them - they had a whopping 4 All-SEC position players (two 1st team, two 2nd) selected in the preseason. To put that in in perspective, AU had 7 (one 1st, six 2nd). 2008 All-SEC Pre-season
So, yes, I stand by my assertion that 2017 AU, preseason, is more talented than the 2008 Bama team that went 12-0 and fell just short of winning the SECC and playing for the BCSC.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:17 pm to FearlessFreep
What you are pointing out is that the preseason predictions were wrong, not pointing out that Bama wasnt talented
We don't know just how talented our team is but it is highly unlikely that 13+ of our starters get drafted like that Bama team With 9+ RD1-2
Also this was before Bama became a juggernaut so this "Bama/Saban bias" was nothing like what it is today and marginal influence at best
We don't know just how talented our team is but it is highly unlikely that 13+ of our starters get drafted like that Bama team With 9+ RD1-2
Also this was before Bama became a juggernaut so this "Bama/Saban bias" was nothing like what it is today and marginal influence at best
Posted on 5/10/17 at 4:26 pm to FearlessFreep
quote:
So, yes, I stand by my assertion that 2017 AU, preseason, is more talented than the 2008 Bama team that went 12-0 and fell just short of winning the SECC and playing for the BCSC.
So you believe we will have more than 13 players drafted from our team? Your argument hasn't proven they weren't talented, just that they hadn't been given the opportunity to show that talent. I hope you are right. If we have 10 1st-3rd round picks starting for us we will win big. Assuming they aren't all kickers and punters.
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