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re: Ideas for a new OC?
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:00 pm to GenesChin
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:00 pm to GenesChin
quote:
That isn't entirely true, there are option/dynamic routes (which I prefer) that are staples of the Spurrier type run and shoot offenses.
Essentially, WRs have options on where to go on their routes and they choose based on teh coverage. The QB reads the coverage/sees WR to know where to throw
I thought that's what I said (just differently).
There is no "route tree" in Gus's current offense. Every WR walks up to the line with a twig.
1
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:02 pm to beatbammer
I don't think you know what a route tree actually is. Going to the line with options based on coverage is not a route tree.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:19 pm to beatbammer
quote:
Beatbammer
A route tree is where a receiver runs the "trunk" of a tree and the play call determines what the receiver does at the "break" such as a "go", "post", "comeback."
For example, a 15 yd route tree means that if a player runs a "dig" he runs 15 yards than cuts 90degrees towards the center of the field. A "go" runs 15 yards then continues , post would have depth 15 yards etc
quote:
There is no "route tree" in Gus's current offense.
Every offense pretty much has to have a route tree or it would be near impossible to make playcalls or remember the routes for receivers.
quote:
Every WR walks up to the line with a twig.
I assume you mean each player has the option to change his route based on coverage in Gus' system. This is false and a huge flaw Gus has. Our players run static routes as called. Our QB/WR in no way makes reads based on coverage.
It is a huge reason why our WRs never seem to have a knack for "getting open" like other teams. It isn't the WRs it is the routes don't let them adjust
This post was edited on 10/13/15 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:39 pm to GenesChin
I think you're missing that he's being facetious and is just insulting the simplicity of the offense for WRs.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:41 pm to joeyb147
I know he was making a joke, but based on his earlier post I still don't thinkw e are on the same page
This post was edited on 10/13/15 at 7:42 pm
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:44 pm to joeyb147
quote:
I think you're missing that he's being facetious and is just insulting the simplicity of the offense for WRs.
No, I confess that I was obviously ignorant in this regard, but am now much better advised because Gene, instead of simply pointing out I was wrong (#brannigan) actually EXPLAINED how I was wrong.
I think I was still on target with the basic concept I had in mind, just ignorant as to the appropriate terminology.
Thanks, Gene.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:52 pm to GenesChin
quote:
That isn't entirely true, there are option/dynamic routes (which I prefer) that are staples of the Spurrier type run and shoot offenses.
Spurrier didn't run the run and shoot. You're thinking of Houston circa 88-92 with Ware and Klingler.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 7:56 pm to AUstar
quote:
Spurrier didn't run the run and shoot.
Spurrier ran a version of the spread he called the Fun and Gun.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 8:00 pm to beatbammer
You're welcome.
You hear announcers say things that either are simplistic or "wrong" and it is easy to get then straight.
If they wanted you to understand the schemes they would give us a 22 man Cam
You hear announcers say things that either are simplistic or "wrong" and it is easy to get then straight.
If they wanted you to understand the schemes they would give us a 22 man Cam
Posted on 10/13/15 at 8:03 pm to AUstar
Spurrier's fun and gun is a variation of the run and shoot based out of the shotgun. He coined the term fun and gun
It would be like saying Sumlin doesn't run the air raid because it isn't exactly like Mike Leachs version
It would be like saying Sumlin doesn't run the air raid because it isn't exactly like Mike Leachs version
Posted on 10/13/15 at 11:31 pm to AUstar
I am so fricking sick of the Chris Todd was awesome in 2009 bullshite. I don't know how these became a talking point. Here are his stats against SEC teams:
MSU: 10/23 186 0 TD, 0 INT
UT: 19/32 218 1 TD, 0 INT
AR: 15/28 133 0 TD, 0 INT
UK: 10/24 81 0 TD, 1 INT
LSU: 8/14 47 0 TD, 1 INT
OM: 12/22 212 1 TD, 0 INT
UGA: 20/28 238 2 TD, 2 INT
UAT: 15/25 181, 2 TD, 1 INT
Yeah, Gus really had him dominating the SEC. He was awesome against our shitty non conference teams. The Chris Todd talking point is the biggest bunch of bullshite I have seen coming from AU fans keyboards.
MSU: 10/23 186 0 TD, 0 INT
UT: 19/32 218 1 TD, 0 INT
AR: 15/28 133 0 TD, 0 INT
UK: 10/24 81 0 TD, 1 INT
LSU: 8/14 47 0 TD, 1 INT
OM: 12/22 212 1 TD, 0 INT
UGA: 20/28 238 2 TD, 2 INT
UAT: 15/25 181, 2 TD, 1 INT
Yeah, Gus really had him dominating the SEC. He was awesome against our shitty non conference teams. The Chris Todd talking point is the biggest bunch of bullshite I have seen coming from AU fans keyboards.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 11:54 pm to beatbammer
quote:
Spurrier ran a version of the spread he called the Fun and Gun.
But it wasn't a true spread. He used some spread formations, but early on his offense was mostly a pro-style, drop-back passing attack. His QB was under center a lot more than most spread teams today. (He did use the shotgun but just not full time). His later teams at UF (2000ish) were more spread out and in the shotgun more than his earlier teams. So, like everyone else, he changed things up with time.
A lot of people think he threw the ball every down like the air-raid people. Not true. During his best years in the mid 90's, he was about 60/40 pass/run. The thing is, he just threw the ball deep more than other teams. The air-raid people of the time (Hal Mumme at UK) used more horizontal dink and dunk routes, but Spurrier exploited the middle of the field (and deep) a lot more.
He had a very strong running game most of the time. People seem to forget that. It wasn't uncommon for his teams to have 200 yards rushing in a game. And he had some good backs like Eric Rhett (2nd round pick) and Fred Taylor (1st round pick).
His 2000 playbook is online somewhere. Shows all the formations and route concepts.
EDIT: And I don't see run and shoot. Go watch Houston from the early 90's and tell me that is the same offense Spurrier ran. It's not. I mean many offenses have similar formations, but it doesn't mean they are the same. The only similarity to the run and shoot is that Spurrier ran his QB from under center a lot (but he did use the shotgun a lot as well).
This post was edited on 10/13/15 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 10/14/15 at 8:27 am to ever43
quote:
He was awesome against our shitty non conference teams. The Chris Todd talking point is the biggest bunch of bullshite I have seen coming from AU fans keyboards
um.....boom?
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:26 am to AUstar
quote:
Fred Taylor (1st round pick).
Jaguar Legend.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:32 am to AUstar
quote:
And I don't see run and shoot. Go watch Houston from the early 90's and tell me that is the same offense Spurrier ran. It's not. I mean many offenses have similar formations, but it doesn't mean they are the same. The only similarity to the run and shoot is that Spurrier ran his QB from under center a lot (but he did use the shotgun a lot as well).
As I said, Steve Spurrier did not run the original "Run and shoot" offense. Spurrier's "Fun n Gun" offense is a variation that evolved from the Run and Shoot which added more shotgun and other elements.
I made the distinction that guys like Sumlin/Holgerson run an "Air Raid" but it looks absolutely nothing like the original Leach/Mumme "Air Raid" offenses. They still get cateogrized the same.
or for us Aubies, Gus Malzahn runs a variation of the "Wing T" so to say our offense is a "Wing T based offense" is not incorrect
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:57 am to GenesChin
quote:
As I said, Steve Spurrier did not run the original "Run and shoot" offense. Spurrier's "Fun n Gun" offense is a variation that evolved from the Run and Shoot which added more shotgun and other elements.
It was only placed in the shotgun because of what happened in the 1996 UF/FSU game. You can thank Peter Boulware and Reinard Wilson for that.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 11:12 am to beatbammer
quote:Whether he uses a route tree or not if a qb cannot read the defense and find the open receiver it still doesn't matter
The route TREE, however, is also simple which is the root (see what I did there?) of the problem. Instead of going to the line and diagnosing the coverage and running the route required by that coverage by the route tree, Gus HAS NO ROUTE TREE. Gus sends his receivers to the line with one route and one route only to run.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 12:19 pm to MontyTiger
quote:
Whether he uses a route tree or not if a qb cannot read the defense and find the open receiver it still doesn't matter
You simplify reads when you use route trees for your routes.
Also, Gus clearly can't teach QBs to make reads. Todd, Cam, Marshall none of them made reads while at AU.
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