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re: Ideas for a new OC?
Posted on 10/13/15 at 4:54 pm to GenesChin
Posted on 10/13/15 at 4:54 pm to GenesChin
quote:
Smuphy and I had a twitter chat about this. The issue with the offense is in the middle school level passing game/amateur receiver route trees + reads
Nah. Gus set records at Tulsa (5,000 yard passer) and did good things with lowly Chris Todd in 2009 (most TD passes in AU history). I wont bother with 2010 because, well, Newton would dominate even if every play was a QB draw up the middle.
Then you have 2013 with Marshall, who was not a great passer, but still did well enough in the passing game. If we had a QB who could throw an accurate deep ball in 2013/14, the offense would have been even better than it was (and it was pretty damn good).
So, I don't buy any of this nonsense that Gus's passing routes are "too simple." Bottom line is our QB's are shite. You can't win without a QB. Simple as that. To make things worse, the OL sucks arse and we have no go to WR's anymore either.
Bottom line: overall the offense is just arse (except for the RB's). The scheme hasn't changed and Gus hasn't suddenly forgot how to X and O.
What I do blame Gus for is not seeing how bad the talent on offense was. That is a problem and is frankly a much bigger problem than simply being out X'ed and O'ed. If a coach can't properly evaluate talent, then I don't care if he is the Gary Kasparov of football X's and O's because he can't win.
6
Posted on 10/13/15 at 4:56 pm to AUtigerNOLA
Assuming this hypothetical of Lashlee being let go or getting a gig somewhere else were to actually happen, I wonder what impact hiring someone else as OC would have on Coach Craig. Especially if (big if) the rumors of him wanting to implement things he's learned at FSU are true.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 4:57 pm to GenesChin
TL;DR
Due to major OL scheme differences, to hire Baylor's OC either Gus or the OC would have to make serious changes to their system to make them mesh.
The OL schemes are not mix and match
Due to major OL scheme differences, to hire Baylor's OC either Gus or the OC would have to make serious changes to their system to make them mesh.
The OL schemes are not mix and match
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:07 pm to AUstar
quote:
Nah. Gus set records....... I don't buy any of this nonsense that Gus's passing routes are "too simple."
Gus' passing game is comically simple. The thing is, the philosophy is legit but only when the rest of the offense is working. He is looking to find players that are out of position/bite on fakes, not "Out X and O" the defense. It is why he says we are a "play action passing offense"
We try the HUNH and run bubble screens, jet sweeps and all these other plays people hate because they set up our "real" passing game. The whole goal of our offense is to lure the safeties/CBs into recognizing the short play and then burn them deep when they do.
That is why our QBs don't seem to "make reads" and why we never have a WR that is "always open" like other teams because they run different routes
What that means
If other teams can stop our short plays without safety help, stopping us is like fish in a barrel. Our entire passing offense is based on the idea that we will have a 1on1 with no safety/LB underneath zones
This post was edited on 10/13/15 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:11 pm to AUstar
The passing routes are quite elementary but feel free to assume otherwise.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:21 pm to AUstar
quote:
If we had a QB who could throw an accurate deep ball in 2013/14, the offense would have been even better than it was (and it was pretty damn good).
quote:
Nick Marshall threw 64 passes over 20 yards in 2014 - his 45.3 Accuracy % was 2ND IN THE SEC behind Dak P.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:24 pm to AUstar
AUstar, you can believe whatever you want, but nearly every coach/reporter etc that knows their Xs and Os will tell you Auburn's passing offense isn't complicated and not "advanced." The thing is, when run with the right personnel it doesn't need to be to be legit.
If a coach/OC could come in and develop the passing offense/QB to make reads and have WRs run dynamic routes, Gus' offense would be unstoppable. So why not ask for that?
If a coach/OC could come in and develop the passing offense/QB to make reads and have WRs run dynamic routes, Gus' offense would be unstoppable. So why not ask for that?
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:34 pm to AUstar
frick it. Lets go get Josh McDaniels from the Patriots. frick it I say. its only money.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:38 pm to joeyb147
DOn't forget that Coates/Ricardo had theirfair share of clear drops on deep passes and Duke had at least one in the IB
Nick Marshall is arguably one of the best deep ball QBs ever. His INT rate on those throws has to be insanely low because he only missed long never short. Also,
Nick Marshall is arguably one of the best deep ball QBs ever. His INT rate on those throws has to be insanely low because he only missed long never short. Also,
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:40 pm to GenesChin
Honestly, I'm not so sure what happened to the WR routes this year. WarRoom Eagle did several breakdown's of some of the staples of Gus' passing game, and I don't see the same things this year.
Gus' basic route tree, adjusted tree, & special routes.
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/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3916266/RouteTreeAdj.0.png)
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3916268/SpecialRoutes.0.png)
Attacking CBs
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3928620/Smash.0.png)
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3928622/Flag-Flat1.0.png)
/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3928654/Flag-Flat2.0.png)
More links with clips and shite.
Attacking Flat Defender
Going deep with verticals
Short throws against soft coverage
Attacking LBs
Flood concepts
Rollouts and Naked Bootlegs
Gus' basic route tree, adjusted tree, & special routes.
Attacking CBs
More links with clips and shite.
Attacking Flat Defender
Going deep with verticals
Short throws against soft coverage
Attacking LBs
Flood concepts
Rollouts and Naked Bootlegs
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:50 pm to joeyb147
His route trees weren't that advanced to begin with and it has gotten worse.
I'd love to have someone from Dana Holgerson's offense teach air raid concepts for our pass attack.
Holgerson's offense is my least favorite of the Air Raid guys but he is the only one whose OL schemes are similar enough to Gus' to make it work.
Almost all the other air raid guys do something along the lines of a "Vertical set" for their OL blocking. That just doesn't work for Gus' system without changes
I'd love to have someone from Dana Holgerson's offense teach air raid concepts for our pass attack.
Holgerson's offense is my least favorite of the Air Raid guys but he is the only one whose OL schemes are similar enough to Gus' to make it work.
Almost all the other air raid guys do something along the lines of a "Vertical set" for their OL blocking. That just doesn't work for Gus' system without changes
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:54 pm to GenesChin
I just want to see simple dynamic route trees. It is easy enough to incorporate some triangle reads from what Gus does and get our WRs open
Posted on 10/13/15 at 5:56 pm to GenesChin
frick all that route tree shite. How about leading the SEC in rushing? That'd be nice.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 6:00 pm to Aubie Spr96
Let's hire someone to run the Maryland I.
Seriously, I would love to see someone run that. I wonder what the success rate would be.
Seriously, I would love to see someone run that. I wonder what the success rate would be.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 6:00 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
The passing routes are quite elementary but feel free to assume otherwise.
I am not arguing that they are on an NFL level of complexity. But then again, no one actually runs the ball in the NFL anymore, so passing is what they do.
My only point is his offense has worked anywhere he has been. I don't think a lack of complex passing routes has anything to do with AU's struggles this year. It basically boils down to JJ playing like shite and Sean White needing a lot more time to develop. Not to mention the OL has pretty pretty lackluster.
X's and O's are overrated. You can win with any scheme from the wishbone to the air-raid. What matters are the Jimmie's and Joe's Don't kid yourself. AU just doesn't have the horses right now, which is concerning considering the recruiting rankings since 2010.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 6:23 pm to AUstar
quote:
AU just doesn't have the horses right now
Posted on 10/13/15 at 6:26 pm to LurkingEmbraer
OK, tell me who AU has on offense that would start for a top 10 team right now?
Posted on 10/13/15 at 6:31 pm to AUstar
Melvin Ray, Marcus Davis, and Kevin Phillips.
Posted on 10/13/15 at 6:36 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
quote:
The passing routes are quite elementary but feel free to assume otherwise.
I would disagree inasmuch as this:
A route is a route is a route. A route, by its nature, is simple.
The route TREE, however, is also simple which is the root (see what I did there?) of the problem. Instead of going to the line and diagnosing the coverage and running the route required by that coverage by the route tree, Gus HAS NO ROUTE TREE. Gus sends his receivers to the line with one route and one route only to run.
Therein lies the problem.
This post was edited on 10/13/15 at 7:00 pm
Posted on 10/13/15 at 6:39 pm to beatbammer
That isn't entirely true, there are option/dynamic routes (which I prefer) that are staples of the Spurrier type run and shoot offenses.
Essentially, WRs have options on where to go on their routes and they choose based on teh coverage. The QB reads the coverage/sees WR to know where to throw
Essentially, WRs have options on where to go on their routes and they choose based on teh coverage. The QB reads the coverage/sees WR to know where to throw
This post was edited on 10/13/15 at 6:53 pm
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