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re: More infill proposed for downtown Fayetteville.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 7:02 am to Porker Face
Posted on 6/22/16 at 7:02 am to Porker Face
Remind me again how many chains are on Dickson Vs. non-chains? Yes, the Taco Bell is disappointing and weird, but it's not some indicator of inability of local restaurant viability. If anything, that we are attracting national chain attention for unique pilot concepts (Waffle House and Taco Bell) is an indicator of a market that national forecasters believe is trending upwards.
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Posted on 6/22/16 at 7:13 am to hogfly
I don't see a lot of local restaurant growth. I guess hog haus got a makeover? Not sure how that will work out
And I wouldn't read a taco bell replacing a failed local restaurant as something that supports a hypothesis of local restaurant viability.
And I wouldn't read a taco bell replacing a failed local restaurant as something that supports a hypothesis of local restaurant viability.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 8:02 am to Numberwang
I swear the legacy is just mostly rich alumni who have a vacation apartment specifically for football season there. Some of those apartments especially on the top level are about a million dollars if they were condos.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 8:10 am to HogFanfromHTown
That's exactly the issue. They're only occupied certain weekends of the year which means that businesses that depend on true high density population (bodegas) can't thrive. But it's not a walkable live able downtown until you have those businesses. It's chicken and egg.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:24 am to hogfly
quote:Gotta have high density rentals before you can have bodegas. But they have to be affordable enough for people to actually live there, and the cost of real estate around Dickson may preclude the "affordable" part. Idk, I'm not an urban planner or a real estate expert. Not really sure what could be done if the city wanted to develop downtown into a livable/walkable neighborhood.
That's exactly the issue. They're only occupied certain weekends of the year which means that businesses that depend on true high density population (bodegas) can't thrive. But it's not a walkable live able downtown until you have those businesses. It's chicken and egg.
edit: but I think it can be accomplished.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 9:34 am
Posted on 6/22/16 at 9:37 am to Porker Face
quote:
I don't see a lot of local restaurant growth. I guess hog haus got a makeover? Not sure how that will work out
And I wouldn't read a taco bell replacing a failed local restaurant as something that supports a hypothesis of local restaurant viability.
JJ's. Depot. Kraken are all fairly new restaurants down there.
The chinese place where 36 Club was doing very well, but the building got sold because something new is going in there.
I do agree that the restaurant scene is pretty shite downtown right now. That's why we end up eating in Bentonville pretty often instead of Fayetteville these days.
Fayetteville food seems geared toward students. Bentonville food is geared toward business professionals. There hasn't been a restaurant open in Fayettevile that has knocked my socks off in years. Bentonville seems to get a new good restaurant every few months.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 9:44 am
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:19 am to hogfly
I'd make the argument that downtown Fayetteville is a walkable and livable neighborhood already. There is a bodega on Dickson Street, called Blackboard Grocery. It seems to be thriving. That's evidence of sufficient population density in the area. While a Waffle House and Taco Bell aren't "great assets" to a neighborhood, they are both built without any parking whatsoever.
The only places you'll find chains like either of those without its own parking, is in a big city, or in Fayetteville. The Taco Bell owners paid $1.4 for the building I think, and moved the franchise for their existing drive-thru location downtown. That's a high-degree of confidence in the ability to have customers without the traditional set up.
The only places you'll find chains like either of those without its own parking, is in a big city, or in Fayetteville. The Taco Bell owners paid $1.4 for the building I think, and moved the franchise for their existing drive-thru location downtown. That's a high-degree of confidence in the ability to have customers without the traditional set up.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 10:47 am to Numberwang
Those are valid points, all.
The real tragedy in recent developments in downtown, imo, was the HUGE miss of the Saver's Club/IGA remodel. What a missed opportunity that was to put in something modern, upscale and suitable for the neighborhood. A trader joe's would have killed there (though parking would have been an issue).
It's just sad that they spent all that money on a remodel and ended up with something that is perhaps worse than what was there previously and something that's so outdated and poorly designed.
The real tragedy in recent developments in downtown, imo, was the HUGE miss of the Saver's Club/IGA remodel. What a missed opportunity that was to put in something modern, upscale and suitable for the neighborhood. A trader joe's would have killed there (though parking would have been an issue).
It's just sad that they spent all that money on a remodel and ended up with something that is perhaps worse than what was there previously and something that's so outdated and poorly designed.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:24 pm to hogfly
quote:
It's just sad that they spent all that money on a remodel and ended up with something that is perhaps worse than what was there previously and something that's so outdated and poorly designed.
Perhaps worse? AYFKM? I grew up 4 blocks away and went to that shithole Marvin's after school my entire childhood.
It's 50x better than it was.
You guys really are awful. You want Fayetteville to be f-ing Portland.
Kind of glad I don't live there anymore. It's getting out of hand. REALLY don't want to come back and see that tool Matthew Petty as our mayor.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 1:25 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:30 pm to STLhog
That is prime real estate, and Saver's Club is awful because it's new and it's the best they could do. At least Marvin's had nostalgia and age going for it. Saver's is even more depressing because it's a "new" remodel, and that's the best they could do.
The new WM Neighborhood Market on MLK kicks the shite out it from a design perspective, and the adjacent property values and demographics aren't anywhere nearly as affluent as what surrounds Marvin's.
The new WM Neighborhood Market on MLK kicks the shite out it from a design perspective, and the adjacent property values and demographics aren't anywhere nearly as affluent as what surrounds Marvin's.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:36 pm to hogfly
quote:
The new WM Neighborhood Market on MLK kicks the shite out it from a design perspective, and the adjacent property values and demographics aren't anywhere nearly as affluent as what surrounds Marvin's.
This might be the yuppiest load of crap I've ever heard in my life.
You probably are all for a "light rail" going to Bentonville too lol.
No wonder people around the state laugh their asses off at NWA. I can see why not having gained some perspective getting out of that bubble.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:41 pm to STLhog
Is that a rebuttal?
It doesn't even address my point or make any sense.
Of course, you probably love the looks of the Saver's Club, which tells me all I need to know about your understanding of design.
You should probably move down to Fort Smith, they have a ton of outdated, ugly Dollar Generals and gas stations where everyone shops. It sounds like it's right up your alley.
It doesn't even address my point or make any sense.
Of course, you probably love the looks of the Saver's Club, which tells me all I need to know about your understanding of design.
You should probably move down to Fort Smith, they have a ton of outdated, ugly Dollar Generals and gas stations where everyone shops. It sounds like it's right up your alley.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:42 pm to STLhog
hogfly is right about the Marvin's property.
Marvin's went discount, when WM was building in what is ostensibly the same general neighborhood. I've driven past Marvin's several times on my way to the new Walmart, and I was opposed to the Walmart design at first.
Pretty much everything downtown and adjacent is headed upscale. Recognizing that doesn't equal wanting "light-rail to Bentonville".
Check out new home prices in Mission Heights. Check out home prices in Wilson Park. Check home prices on Mt. Sequoyah. Check rents downtown. It's all pointing to higher end. I don't see Marvin's even being used as a grocery store in the future. Its too big of an open parcel and it is zoned for height.
Marvin's went discount, when WM was building in what is ostensibly the same general neighborhood. I've driven past Marvin's several times on my way to the new Walmart, and I was opposed to the Walmart design at first.
Pretty much everything downtown and adjacent is headed upscale. Recognizing that doesn't equal wanting "light-rail to Bentonville".
Check out new home prices in Mission Heights. Check out home prices in Wilson Park. Check home prices on Mt. Sequoyah. Check rents downtown. It's all pointing to higher end. I don't see Marvin's even being used as a grocery store in the future. Its too big of an open parcel and it is zoned for height.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:48 pm to Numberwang
Exactly. Ultimately, Saver's Club remodel was a fail because it's not going to survive most likely because it's not going to appeal to the surrounding demographics. If it were actually something somewhat upscale (Fresh Market, Trader Joe's, a nice Harps, etc..) then it would dominate that area. The disappointment in the remodel is pretty universal from the people I talk with in the area.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:51 pm to hogfly
The remodel was definitely a miss. I'm not sure how much money they spent but did they even update the cashier areas? 
It didn't really improve the store that much, and seems that it would have been more prudent to wait and see how WM impacted them first. Plus, it's Marvin's. They changed the damned name. Why? To what end?
From here it looks about as sane as lighting a pile of cash on fire.
It didn't really improve the store that much, and seems that it would have been more prudent to wait and see how WM impacted them first. Plus, it's Marvin's. They changed the damned name. Why? To what end? From here it looks about as sane as lighting a pile of cash on fire.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:51 pm to hogfly
quote:
Exactly. Ultimately, Saver's Club remodel was a fail because it's not going to survive most likely because it's not going to appeal to the surrounding demographics. If it were actually something somewhat upscale (Fresh Market, Trader Joe's, a nice Harps, etc..) then it would dominate that area. The disappointment in the remodel is pretty universal from the people I talk with in the area.
Won't survive?
That Marvin's was there for 30+ years and was a hot pile of garbage pretty much the whole time.
Historic District folk will always support that place strictly because of proximity and convenience.
And calling South Fayetteville on MLK "ostensibly" the same neighborhood as the historic district is absurd.
I agree it's beyond my why we don't have Trader Joe's but that will go much further North well before it goes anywhere near downtown Fayetteville.
This post was edited on 6/22/16 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:53 pm to hogfly
quote:
Of course, you probably love the looks of the Saver's Club, which tells me all I need to know about your understanding of design.
You should probably move down to Fort Smith, they have a ton of outdated, ugly Dollar Generals and gas stations where everyone shops. It sounds like it's right up your alley.
Of course I don't "love the look". But that entire strip heading to township/the mall is hot garbage and has been my entire lifetime.
I care about things that actually matter and REALLY are an eye sore. Things like vacancy and the F-ing mountain Inn that looks like North St Louis which is attached to the "upscale" part of our city that you keep referring to.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:54 pm to STLhog
quote:
And calling South Fayetteville on MLK "ostensibly" the same neighborhood as the historic district is absurd.
Eh, not really, from a trade-area standpoint. We'll see how they fare against Walmart being down there. I contend they both try to capture a lot of the same market.
And you make a good point about it being in the historic district. Those homes are really expensive these days.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:56 pm to Numberwang
quote:
Eh, not really, from a trade-area standpoint. We'll see how they fare against Walmart being down there. I contend they both try to capture a lot of the same market.
Wrong. People in the Mission/Mt Seq. area aren't going to bypass Saver's and go all the way down there.
If they're willing to do that, they'll drive out to Mission.
No denying that WNM will have tons of traffic, but you can bet most of it won't be coming from the historic distric.
Posted on 6/22/16 at 1:59 pm to STLhog
quote:
But that entire strip heading to township/the mall is hot garbage and has been my entire lifetime.
Just in the past two weeks, the Twin Arch motel was bulldozed for condos, and the old EZ mart was bulldozed for a new retail building. Starbucks is going in next to CVS at Township & College. Change is coming, pretty rapidly it seems. The area beteen Maple & North is set for some new proposals coming along soon, in response to this project.
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