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re: Fayetteville's Anti-Discrimination Ordinance... repealed.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:18 am to hogfly
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:18 am to hogfly
I have mixed feelings, and part of me regrets even giving the opposition their little victory because they're such assholes. I felt a twinge of guilt yesterday after it failed.
I respect the younger people on the city council and I think most of them are intelligent and ambitious. Sometimes, they need to learn how to better pick and how to effectively fight their battles. They attempted to pass a sweeping law, kind of "out do" other cities with broader protections, and wound up getting bad press because of the repeal.
They'll get together another effort and I hope they succeed.
I respect the younger people on the city council and I think most of them are intelligent and ambitious. Sometimes, they need to learn how to better pick and how to effectively fight their battles. They attempted to pass a sweeping law, kind of "out do" other cities with broader protections, and wound up getting bad press because of the repeal.
They'll get together another effort and I hope they succeed.
2
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:23 am to wmr
Another thing to remember is that roughly half as many people voted in this special election as voted for the last mayoral election. The right side was very organized and motivated. They talk about high turnout in the context of a special election, when the reality is a low percentage of registered voters actually cast ballots.
Had this been a general election, I think it would have passed. The liberal council members are safe in every ward except out on the west side, and mayor Jordan isn't going to be defeated by Tennant or some other tea-party coalition anytime in the next decade. That is fantasy talk. Recall that our choices the past two elections have been Jordan vs. Coody and that Steve Clark was a distant third when he ran. If it comes down to a conservative person vs Jordan, Jordan will still get those who supported him in the past, plus most of the Coody people. It won't be close.
I say that as a Coody supporter who had signs in his yard the past two elections that he lost, and someone who mostly despises Lioneld and how he runs things. I'd vote for Lioneld before some dick like Phaneuf or La Tour and not even think twice.
Had this been a general election, I think it would have passed. The liberal council members are safe in every ward except out on the west side, and mayor Jordan isn't going to be defeated by Tennant or some other tea-party coalition anytime in the next decade. That is fantasy talk. Recall that our choices the past two elections have been Jordan vs. Coody and that Steve Clark was a distant third when he ran. If it comes down to a conservative person vs Jordan, Jordan will still get those who supported him in the past, plus most of the Coody people. It won't be close.
I say that as a Coody supporter who had signs in his yard the past two elections that he lost, and someone who mostly despises Lioneld and how he runs things. I'd vote for Lioneld before some dick like Phaneuf or La Tour and not even think twice.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:25 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:25 am to wmr
Sounds like you and I pretty much agree on the issue and just made two different decisions at the voting booth.
Hell, part of me regretted casting the vote against repeal when I had issues with it.
And yes, Matt Petty is one of the best things to happen to this town, and he's my favorite alderman (and he's in my ward).
Hell, part of me regretted casting the vote against repeal when I had issues with it.
And yes, Matt Petty is one of the best things to happen to this town, and he's my favorite alderman (and he's in my ward).
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:26 am to Gladius Veritas
quote:
lol
Yeah, pretty funny huh?
Im a 27 year old veteran who returned to school and is in his last semester of an International Relations degree.
I know which party identify with, glad you think its funny enough to laugh out loud at.
Dickbag
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:27 am to hogfly
I'm also in Ward 2, and I'll campaign for Petty if need be. He works his arse off and I respect him even when I don't agree with him. I voted for Patton vs Kinion this last time around, but note that the Tea Party dick they tried to insert got a laughably low percentage of votes for third place. Matt Petty's seat on the council is safe as can be.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:29 am to John Quincy Poodle
People laugh at religious conservatives who claim libertarianism because y'all are never there when it comes time for things like easing marijuana restrictions, etc. I'm not saying YOU personally, but the jerks on the For Repeal side this time around were heavily Baptists and made claims that this was about "personal freedom" etc. Hell, they keep talking about "we made our city more free" etc. They will not be campaigning for medical marijuana in 2016, though, will they? That is not libertarian. Its hijacking the word for personal use.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:30 am to John Quincy Poodle
quote:Thank you for your service. It's still funny.
Yeah, pretty funny huh?
Im a 27 year old veteran who returned to school and is in his last semester of an International Relations degree.
I know which party identify with, glad you think its funny enough to laugh out loud at.
Dickbag
edit: neither being a veteran nor studying international relations is a magical cloak that shields your political beliefs from criticism, so don't try to use them like that
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:33 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:33 am to John Quincy Poodle
The reason I was opposed to it, after reading it multiple times, was that
1) The wording was vague and allowed lots of room for interpretation
2) It puts pressure on small business owners to go against their wants, needs, and beliefs in order to avoid becoming a criminal because of the word of someone else.
3) Enforcing it, in any practical manner, would be a nightmare and give whoever was appointed to do so an alarming amount of power.
4) It deals with a very grey area of law, and society. There is no room for poorly written legislation when you are already dealing with something so subjective.
5) As a LIBERTARIAN, I do not believe the answer to all of societies problems begin and end with legislation, at either the Federal or state and local levels.
1) The wording was vague and allowed lots of room for interpretation
2) It puts pressure on small business owners to go against their wants, needs, and beliefs in order to avoid becoming a criminal because of the word of someone else.
3) Enforcing it, in any practical manner, would be a nightmare and give whoever was appointed to do so an alarming amount of power.
4) It deals with a very grey area of law, and society. There is no room for poorly written legislation when you are already dealing with something so subjective.
5) As a LIBERTARIAN, I do not believe the answer to all of societies problems begin and end with legislation, at either the Federal or state and local levels.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:35 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:36 am to John Quincy Poodle
quote:As a libertarian, how would you propose a society protects the rights and liberties of minorities? Serious question.
5) As a LIBERTARIAN, I do not believe the answer to all of societies problems begin and end with legislation, at either the Federal or stand and local levels.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:37 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:37 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Thank you for your service. It's still funny.
edit: neither being a veteran nor studying international relations is a magical cloak that shields your political beliefs from criticism, so don't try to use them like that
Im not using it as a cloak.
I just dont get why anyone would say "LOL" when someone says they are a Libertarian.
Its the ultimate show of ignorance.
"Oh, your a liberal. LOL . fricking mouth breather."
Its what America has turned into, if you dont agree with me you are WRONG. frick an explanation, your STOOOPID
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:41 am to John Quincy Poodle
quote:Turned into? I don't think this phenomenon is new.
Im not using it as a cloak.
I just dont get why anyone would say "LOL" when someone says they are a Libertarian.
Its the ultimate show of ignorance.
Its what America has turned into, if you dont agree with me you are WRONG. frick an explanation, your STOOOPID
Also, this is the SEC Rant. People gonna laugh at you, your mom, your dog, etc.
quote:Go to Political Talk, at least 5% of the posts are literally this.
"Oh, your a liberal. LOL . fricking mouth breather."
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:42 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
As a libertarian, how would you propose a society protects the rights and liberties of minorities? Serious question.
The rights and liberties of one man cannot trump the rights and liberties of another man.
If a store owner is a devout Christian man, and runs say, a mens clothing store, he should never be forced by law to hire a transexual woman to work there for fear of becoming a criminal.
One man or womans rights should NEVER trump someone elses.
We can all agree racism is wrong, and there needs to be protections in place to ensure that it continues to be eliminated from our society.
The issue voted on Tuesday however is an entirely different animal, while there needs to be protections in place. It needs to be examined and reworked to ensure fairness for EVERYONE. Not just those protected under its blanket.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:46 am to John Quincy Poodle
There is no way I would align myself with the bible thumping douche bags that ran the repeal campaign. The president of their group Duncan Campbell is a faith healer magic man.
I really had no dog in the fight and probably wouldn't have voted until I started reading the bullshite these guys were spewing. Reading some of the statements from the state senators in the surrounding areas was dumbfounding.
Bart Hester former Hog threatening the UA's budget because the chancellor criticized the Chamber of Commerce gives some insight into their brand of politics.
I really had no dog in the fight and probably wouldn't have voted until I started reading the bullshite these guys were spewing. Reading some of the statements from the state senators in the surrounding areas was dumbfounding.
Bart Hester former Hog threatening the UA's budget because the chancellor criticized the Chamber of Commerce gives some insight into their brand of politics.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:49 am to John Quincy Poodle
quote:Okay, but you didn't propose how to actually protect minorities. As a libertarian, how would you protect minorities?
The rights and liberties of one man cannot trump the rights and liberties of another man.
If a store owner is a devout Christian man, and runs say, a mens clothing store, he should never be forced by law to hire a transexual woman to work there for fear of becoming a criminal.
One man or womans rights should NEVER trump someone elses.
We can all agree racism is wrong, and there needs to be protections in place to ensure that it continues to be eliminated from our society.
The issue voted on Tuesday however is an entirely different animal, while there needs to be protections in place. It needs to be examined and reworked to ensure fairness for EVERYONE. Not just those protected under its blanket.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:50 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:06 am to Hog on the Hill
I'll add that I'm not laying a trap for you. I think the basic spirit of libertarianism is good: have as little government as necessary for a safe, fair society. I just don't think staunch, anti-legislative libertarianism provides enough solutions for overcoming the many barriers to safety and fairness.
I agree with you that anti-discrimination legislation must not cause more problems than it solves. Nevertheless, legislation does have an important purpose in combating discrimination and protecting minorities.
I agree with you that anti-discrimination legislation must not cause more problems than it solves. Nevertheless, legislation does have an important purpose in combating discrimination and protecting minorities.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 10:06 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:12 am to Hog on the Hill
The magical hand of the free market.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:17 am to Hog on the Hill
Be realistic.. the core of libertarianism these days is wanting to keep the government from being able to tell you that your rights don't trump the rights of everybody else out there.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 10:21 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:18 am to Hog on the Hill
quote:
Okay, but you didn't propose how to actually protect minorities. As a libertarian, how would you protect minorities?
There's your answer as to why so few actual minorities are libertarian. Most college-aged white guys flirt with or embrace libertarian ideology. Most folks outgrow it eventually when they see the real world flaws of a purely libertarian outlook.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:25 am to Numberwang
quote:
There's your answer as to why so few actual minorities are libertarian. Most college-aged white guys flirt with or embrace libertarian ideology. Most folks outgrow it eventually when they see the real world flaws of a purely libertarian outlook.
True. I was libertarian for a while. In the end, it's just as impossibly utopian as marxism or anarchism, imo.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:35 am to Numberwang
quote:Yeah, I remember the Ron Paul 2008 stickers and buttons being handed out at parties when I was a student in Fayetteville. You could barely see them through the clouds of pot smoke.
There's your answer as to why so few actual minorities are libertarian. Most college-aged white guys flirt with or embrace libertarian ideology. Most folks outgrow it eventually when they see the real world flaws of a purely libertarian outlook.
These days, those people seem way more involved in Arkansans for Compassionate Care and similar efforts than in actual libertarian politics.
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