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re: Fayetteville's Anti-Discrimination Ordinance... repealed.

Posted on 12/10/14 at 2:33 pm to
Posted by John Quincy Poodle
Hogville Trash Can
Member since Nov 2014
528 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 2:33 pm to
Thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is that this belief that you NEED the government to ensure you are free is completely false. Thats what they want you to believe.

I find it funny that nearly every Arkansas fan I have ever debated with on a message board has been a progressive left winger.

Im a Libertarian, and I think putting more laws, especially poorly written laws in place just for the sake of having them is comically bad. Its literally everything that is wrong with America.

More legislation is not the answer to everything. I know that might seem hard to comprehend for some of you.
Posted by Numberwang
Bike City, USA
Member since Feb 2012
13163 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 2:38 pm to
You sure do use a lot of words to say you disagree with Civil Rights legislation.
Posted by Hog Leg
NWA
Member since Dec 2010
970 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 2:44 pm to
LGBTs just want to be treated the same as everyone else - in other words better and/or special.

Posted by BarkRuffalo
Boston, MA
Member since Feb 2014
1206 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

I think putting more laws, especially poorly written laws in place just for the sake of having them is comically bad


But that's not what's happening. At all.
Posted by blacknblu
Member since Nov 2011
10276 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

LGBTs just want to be treated the same as everyone else - in other words better and/or special.



Nah man, what sucks is that people still aren't being treated like people. They don't want a new car, you don't have to watch their dog while they're on vacation - and I'm pretty sure no one is legally required to suck a dick.

Now if I'm wrong - that shite should have been repealed

Posted by Ham Malone
Member since Nov 2010
2510 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 7:37 pm to
quote:

John Quincy Poodle


You should hop on over to Political Talk, they'd love you.
Posted by John Quincy Poodle
Hogville Trash Can
Member since Nov 2014
528 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 8:55 pm to
Im sure they would, nothing like getting gangbanged by a bunch of smelly hippies on the internet to brighten up your week
Posted by wmr
North of Dickson, South of Herman's
Member since Mar 2009
32518 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:13 pm to
There were some things in the ordinance that made is harder for folks to swallow. It essentially made Fayetteville a sanctuary city for illegals, in my understanding. There were provisions that kept people from discriminating in renting to non-citizens, etc.

It was too broad, IMO. Bring it back to just being about gays, make it very straight-forward, take out the shared pissers idea, and it should pass.
Posted by CtotheVrzrbck
WeWaCo
Member since Dec 2007
37538 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:28 pm to
I've not read the ordinance, nor do I care to. I'll just say E. Springdale is the recognized area for the non-citizens. As long as they stay East of Gutensohn and North of the railroad bridge. Fayettevillians are good.
Posted by Gladius Veritas
Fayetteville, Arkansas
Member since May 2012
13189 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 10:32 pm to
quote:

Im a Libertarian


lol
Posted by Razorback Reverend
Member since Dec 2013
22745 posts
Posted on 12/10/14 at 11:17 pm to
NAACP

Black Mingle .com... ROTFL

BAC Black American Caucus

it is ridiculous... I wonder if I began Whitemingle.com and advertised how many Jesse Jacksons would bilk the crap out of it to fight the injustice.


Now back to gays... (Not literally ) They deserve the same rights as everyone else with regards to job protection and service, but share pissers with transgendered in public, and the wording thereof... Right down the urinal!
Posted by Hog on the Hill
AR
Member since Jun 2009
13389 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 6:19 am to
quote:

NAACP

Black Mingle .com... ROTFL

BAC Black American Caucus

it is ridiculous... I wonder if I began Whitemingle.com and advertised how many Jesse Jacksons would bilk the crap out of it to fight the injustice.
First of all, I'm not sure why you're bringing any of this up as it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the discussion we're having. It just seems weird and out of place.

I tried going to blackmingle.com and it didn't work. But if it does exist, why would it matter? Anyone can create any website they want to--it's not a reflection of anything in particular. I can go make "white people are the devil dot com" and people could bring it up doing an argument about race, but would it really mean anything? No.

As for the NAACP and BAC, what do you not understand? African Americans are a minority that has been crapped on by the majority for hundreds of years. Both organizations formed decades ago when virtually every other political organization was exclusively comprised of white people and primarily represented the interests of white people. There was no place for African Americans in most institutions in the US, so they made their own.

I'm honestly bewildered... what point are you trying to make? How does it relate to Fayetteville's anti-discrimination ordinance?
Posted by j1897
Member since Nov 2011
3561 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 7:31 am to
You can't appoint a person to have unchallenged power to instigate witch hunts and lynch mobs, which is precisely how this ordinance would have been policed. Very scary.
Posted by Bear-O-Dactyl
tRock
Member since Oct 2012
1171 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:30 am to
quote:

It was too broad, IMO. Bring it back to just being about gays, make it very straight-forward, take out the shared pissers idea, and it should pass.

These are my thoughts exactly. I think most can agree that gay people need and deserve protection from employment/housing discrimination, but the ordinance tries to do too much.

If they created a new ordinance that just added the words "...and sexual orientation" to the existing federal legislation, then I don't think there would be near the backlash.
Posted by hogfly
Fayetteville, AR
Member since May 2014
4639 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:36 am to
quote:

If they created a new ordinance that just added the words "...and sexual orientation" to the existing federal legislation, then I don't think there would be near the backlash.


I totally disagree that there wouldn't be nearly the backlash. Let's face it, the two core groups that really reacted to this ordinance and were outspokenly against it were libertarian/tea party folks and the conservative christians. Neither one of those are ever going to like ANY kind of ordinance that deals with this issue, regardless how mild it might be.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't have a better chance of passing if it were reined back, but the venom and vitriol surrounding the attempt would be equally outrageous. People who had a measured nuanced opposition to the ordinance based upon its wording or overreaching mainly voted against it quietly and went on their way.
Posted by Hog on the Hill
AR
Member since Jun 2009
13389 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 8:59 am to
quote:

lol
same
Posted by Killean
Port Charlotte, FL
Member since Nov 2010
4669 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:02 am to
The core of the opposition is that while all people should be treated equally.. non-white non-male non-christians non-straight* aren't people.



* it's ok to rape same sex children.. but it's not ok to have a relationship with them





This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:04 am
Posted by wmr
North of Dickson, South of Herman's
Member since Mar 2009
32518 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:07 am to
quote:

You can't appoint a person to have unchallenged power to instigate witch hunts and lynch mobs, which is precisely how this ordinance would have been policed. Very scary.


Bear in mind, the MAX penalty under the ordinance was a $500 fine. And it was only classified as a "criminal" offense, because the state does not allow cities to create civil offenses or civil penalties.

It had the same burden of proof of any other infraction. Imagine it like a speeding ticket or a parking ticket. You can challenge those in court if you like, and a situation where discrimination is alleged would actually require the accuser to provide some kind of proof. I have confidence that frivolous claims would be thrown out before even reaching the prosecutor, because there was a built in, required mediation section before a charge could even be pursued.

The problem with this ordinance, which I voted against, BTW, is that it was too broad. The mayor and Petty tried to address every concern of every victim class represented down at the Omni Center all at once.

Go back and extend fair housing and employment non-discrimination protections to gay people, and I'd vote for it in a heartbeat. I feel that there are many people who share my view.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:16 am
Posted by wmr
North of Dickson, South of Herman's
Member since Mar 2009
32518 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:10 am to
quote:

I totally disagree that there wouldn't be nearly the backlash. Let's face it, the two core groups that really reacted to this ordinance and were outspokenly against it were libertarian/tea party folks and the conservative christians. Neither one of those are ever going to like ANY kind of ordinance that deals with this issue, regardless how mild it might be.


The uber religious Tea Party types are far more numerous than I ever imagined in the city of Fayetteville. And you are right, they are never going to support any kind of protections for gay people. But there is a middle ground of business owners and otherwise gay-neutral or even gay-positive people who voted against it due to some of the broadness of the initiative. Our law was very broad and inclusive. If they'd propose one more in line with Starkville or Plano, it might not even garner enough signatures to take it to a vote. Sometimes Petty and Marsh go for broke, like with the height restrictions downtown, and wind up getting more than they hoped for and it backfires.

Another problem is that reality TV has made some of our most outspoken religious conservatives into millionaires locally, so they are able to organize and fund like never before.
This post was edited on 12/11/14 at 9:11 am
Posted by hogfly
Fayetteville, AR
Member since May 2014
4639 posts
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:15 am to
I voted against repeal basically because I couldn't stand the BS coming out of the other side. I didn't really like the ordinance in the first place (felt like it was a bit of Petty trying to grandstand and pass "signature" legislation), but once it became a battle between the two "sides," I had to vote against repeal.

For me, the ordinance became a referendum on where I stood on gay rights. I understand there were numerous reasons to vote against it outside of that, but once the Duggars threw their hats in the ring, it boiled down to a civil rights issue for me.
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