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re: Basketball thoughts
Posted on 12/4/14 at 10:22 pm to vengeanceofrain
Posted on 12/4/14 at 10:22 pm to vengeanceofrain
No, tell me more about Mike's set plays.
Then tell me about the role of a "PG" in a motion offense.
Then you can drone on about the rotation of the forward spots and minutes given to each.
Then you can talk about where the game was played.
By that time, you will have hit all the talking points that pop up after every loss.
If you are looking for a circle jerk for this conversation, head on over to HiV, the circle is formed, you can be the pivot man.
Then tell me about the role of a "PG" in a motion offense.
Then you can drone on about the rotation of the forward spots and minutes given to each.
Then you can talk about where the game was played.
By that time, you will have hit all the talking points that pop up after every loss.
If you are looking for a circle jerk for this conversation, head on over to HiV, the circle is formed, you can be the pivot man.
3
Posted on 12/4/14 at 10:26 pm to DaleDenton
Also make sure pioneer knows he is banned from basketball game threads for a little while.
He needs some time off to regroup after this one.
He needs some time off to regroup after this one.
Posted on 12/4/14 at 11:28 pm to beebefootballfan
quote:
Pioneer is banned from making game threads. Thats my thoughts. Ha ha
Posted on 12/4/14 at 11:46 pm to UltimateHog
Im fine.no meltdown here.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:04 am to pioneerbasketball
for me, we looked out of sync and uncontrolled on offense.
Defense was hapless as well.
It will get better and every good team has a bad night.
I am not a BB pro like others on this board, but I love watching hawgball and hope to see it continue improving.
Defense was hapless as well.
It will get better and every good team has a bad night.
I am not a BB pro like others on this board, but I love watching hawgball and hope to see it continue improving.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 12:39 am to vengeanceofrain
I hope you really didnt expect us to do something that nobody but Kansas has done.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:03 am to Woopigsooie20
ISU looked like an elite 8 team or better tonight.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:04 am to Woopigsooie20
Tough loss. That's a tough place to play. They shot 64% from the field and 52% from 3. It didn't matter who they played tonight, they were gonna win.
The biggest thing from this game is we can't let it roll over into Sunday.....
The biggest thing from this game is we can't let it roll over into Sunday.....
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:27 am to DaleDenton
well dale since you want to play internet bad arse and i can't sleep i'll play and make you look like the country arse idiot that youa re
mike runs quite a few set plays. they don't have a set offense but every team has set plays. every team in the country runs some type of "offense" rather it be the high pick and roll offense, the motion offense, the triangle offense, whatever the case may be, and they all have set plays
mike in particular, runs a series of pretty simple but effective plays that we ran at fuller jr high called "stack plays" which are designed to get the 2 or the 3 an open shot.. you basically have
1
4 5
2 3
[
depending on which side the 1 goes to, let's say for this exerise the point goes to the side with the 5, the 5 will roll down to the low box and set a double screen for the 2 who will use this to try to get an open shot, the 4 will come over to the top right top block and either set a high screen for the point to get to the lane and if he can shoot himself, pop out after setting the screen. this is a pretty simple play but quite effective
but say the 2 gets the ball and he doesn't have an open shot, the three swings back over to the other side of the court for ball rotation open shot.
if that doesnt' work, the point guard is usually depended on to make a play with the ball in his hand.
mike ran this place i saw at least twice tonight with bell coming off the double scren for a shot.. which brings me to my next point
[
as stated there are plays in a motion offense. The PG's job is to get in those plays, but his other job is to make everyone else's job easier when it comes to scoring by breaking down the defense when need be. This is my main problem with madden. he cannot do this.
one of the staple in any motion offense is the iso play which is basically
1
2 3
4 5
which basically means, everyone get the frick out of the way and let the point take his man off the drible, get the goal and collaspe the defense.
however this is a problem beucase maddeh, being the fleet of foot point guard that he is, is not capble of taking his man off the drible or getting around anyone.
Also, you only run motion against man to man defenses. you can't run a motion offense against a zone defense, and the key to beating a zone offense is to penetrate it and get it to collapse. that's why north texas was able to play with us longer than they should have the other night.
but none of these, are my biggest problems that i have with madden. even with his ineptuness tonight we damn near scored 80 points.
My problem is just how awful he is at defense.
1. we can't set our press. he's a good trapping guard because of his long arms and his height but he can't stay with his man. when everyone always says "damn mike anderson and his transition defense" what they are really saying is "my fricking god madden you got beat again" when you're point guard cannot stay in front of his man.. that's a prety big problem.
2. there was a play in the 2nd half. the point guard for ISU isoed on the right side of the court and madden is all down and playing defense all hard and shite lol and the point guard, didn't fake him out or anything , just literally blew right by him for an easy layup.
one of the adjustments mike made in the 2nd half, about 5 mins into it was taking madden off the PG and putting beard on him. he's just too slow.
wiht all that said we are a top 25 team. we will win a lot of games this year. but madden sucks.
quote:
No, tell me more about Mike's set plays.
mike runs quite a few set plays. they don't have a set offense but every team has set plays. every team in the country runs some type of "offense" rather it be the high pick and roll offense, the motion offense, the triangle offense, whatever the case may be, and they all have set plays
mike in particular, runs a series of pretty simple but effective plays that we ran at fuller jr high called "stack plays" which are designed to get the 2 or the 3 an open shot.. you basically have
1
4 5
2 3
[
depending on which side the 1 goes to, let's say for this exerise the point goes to the side with the 5, the 5 will roll down to the low box and set a double screen for the 2 who will use this to try to get an open shot, the 4 will come over to the top right top block and either set a high screen for the point to get to the lane and if he can shoot himself, pop out after setting the screen. this is a pretty simple play but quite effective
but say the 2 gets the ball and he doesn't have an open shot, the three swings back over to the other side of the court for ball rotation open shot.
if that doesnt' work, the point guard is usually depended on to make a play with the ball in his hand.
mike ran this place i saw at least twice tonight with bell coming off the double scren for a shot.. which brings me to my next point
quote:
Then tell me about the role of a "PG" in a motion offense.
[
as stated there are plays in a motion offense. The PG's job is to get in those plays, but his other job is to make everyone else's job easier when it comes to scoring by breaking down the defense when need be. This is my main problem with madden. he cannot do this.
one of the staple in any motion offense is the iso play which is basically
1
2 3
4 5
which basically means, everyone get the frick out of the way and let the point take his man off the drible, get the goal and collaspe the defense.
however this is a problem beucase maddeh, being the fleet of foot point guard that he is, is not capble of taking his man off the drible or getting around anyone.
Also, you only run motion against man to man defenses. you can't run a motion offense against a zone defense, and the key to beating a zone offense is to penetrate it and get it to collapse. that's why north texas was able to play with us longer than they should have the other night.
but none of these, are my biggest problems that i have with madden. even with his ineptuness tonight we damn near scored 80 points.
My problem is just how awful he is at defense.
1. we can't set our press. he's a good trapping guard because of his long arms and his height but he can't stay with his man. when everyone always says "damn mike anderson and his transition defense" what they are really saying is "my fricking god madden you got beat again" when you're point guard cannot stay in front of his man.. that's a prety big problem.
2. there was a play in the 2nd half. the point guard for ISU isoed on the right side of the court and madden is all down and playing defense all hard and shite lol and the point guard, didn't fake him out or anything , just literally blew right by him for an easy layup.
one of the adjustments mike made in the 2nd half, about 5 mins into it was taking madden off the PG and putting beard on him. he's just too slow.
wiht all that said we are a top 25 team. we will win a lot of games this year. but madden sucks.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 1:28 am
Posted on 12/5/14 at 1:39 am to vengeanceofrain
madden doesn't suck. in fact he far from sucks, but he is out of position. put him on a 2 or 3 on D and he plays pretty damn good D. You are right though, he can't stay with quick point guards. beard on the other can, problem is, can beard play smart enough to be our pg right now? i don't think so, so we're going to have to adjust when we play teams with quick arse guards.
we'll be alright though. this was just one of those games where they did everything right and we did everything wrong. i liked that we didn't just give it up. we saw some fight in our guys and could tell they were pissed off about losing.
oh, and portis is an absolute stud. as good as niang is, portis will outlast him by a mile in his career...
we'll be alright though. this was just one of those games where they did everything right and we did everything wrong. i liked that we didn't just give it up. we saw some fight in our guys and could tell they were pissed off about losing.
oh, and portis is an absolute stud. as good as niang is, portis will outlast him by a mile in his career...
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 1:42 am
Posted on 12/5/14 at 6:30 am to Hog Springs
quote:
we'll be alright though. this was just one of those games where they did everything right and we did everything wrong. i liked that we didn't just give it up. we saw some fight in our guys and could tell they were pissed off about losing.
I agree, we'll be alright. What doesn't kill you (hopefully) will make you better.
We walked into a tough situation last night, home team jacked up, their starters hardly played the previous rout of Lamar and were rested, plus - they are just pretty darn good. This was like a mid round NCAA tournament game, and about where we will probably make our exit.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 6:58 am to ArHog
quote:
Our low post defense sucks Can we get Portis and Kingsley in at the same time?
I'd like to see that too- just to see how it works.
Iowa State looked good but we looked like utter shite (until I gave up and turned it off). I'll try to focus on the positive- Portis played great. Annnnd, that's all the positive I have.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:32 am to DaleDenton
Do you want your primary ballhandler in ANY offense to play hero ball consistently in every game?
Madden sucks as a PG not because he doesn't initiate the offense, but because he too often ignores his teammates altogether, drives into the teeth of the defense, and throws up the stupidest shots imaginable.
Madden sucks as a PG not because he doesn't initiate the offense, but because he too often ignores his teammates altogether, drives into the teeth of the defense, and throws up the stupidest shots imaginable.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:38 am to vengeanceofrain
quote:
Madden is the brandon allen of the basketball team
yeah no
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:48 am to The Sultan of Swine
My thoughts are simple. Basketball season is not a sprint, It's a marathon. If that loss helps us on the road in the SEC then it was worth the trip.
Iowa State looked good last night, but we looked a step slow and didn't play with that attitude that we did at SMU.
This team has had two sloppy starts in a row and were able to overcome them but last night a sloppy start doomed us. Hopefully that is a wake up call for this team.
My biggest concern has been low post play and last night did nothing to make me feel any better about it. Kingsley is our best post presence and for whatever reason he doesn't seem to get the minutes I think he needs. Portis, Qualls, Williams, and Miles seem to be bigs that would rather step out to 15 feet.
I thought Harris had one of his best games last night but again nearly half of his scoring was from outside. I think Thompson will be able to help Kingsley eventually but he is really raw right now.
all in all, disappointed in the loss but by no means ready to melt over it.
Iowa State looked good last night, but we looked a step slow and didn't play with that attitude that we did at SMU.
This team has had two sloppy starts in a row and were able to overcome them but last night a sloppy start doomed us. Hopefully that is a wake up call for this team.
My biggest concern has been low post play and last night did nothing to make me feel any better about it. Kingsley is our best post presence and for whatever reason he doesn't seem to get the minutes I think he needs. Portis, Qualls, Williams, and Miles seem to be bigs that would rather step out to 15 feet.
I thought Harris had one of his best games last night but again nearly half of his scoring was from outside. I think Thompson will be able to help Kingsley eventually but he is really raw right now.
all in all, disappointed in the loss but by no means ready to melt over it.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:51 am to ocelot4ark
quote:
drives into the teeth of the defense, and throws up the stupidest shots imaginable.
To be fair, he used his size to get in the lane pretty well last nite. There was alot of contact under our basket with half the calls. At home and on a neutral floor, he would have taken at least 8 more FTs. Gotta do better than that on the road though.
If we had been more careful with the ball, the game obviously would have been much tighter.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:57 am to cigsmcgee
Meh...we lost to a really good team on the road OOC. It's basketball, losing games is part of it.
I had us with one loss going in to conference play. It was a great experience for our team IMO, win or lose. We won't see another environment like that the rest of the year, outside of maybe Rupp.
We will learn from it and move on.
I had us with one loss going in to conference play. It was a great experience for our team IMO, win or lose. We won't see another environment like that the rest of the year, outside of maybe Rupp.
We will learn from it and move on.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 10:03 am to ElDawgHawg
quote:
Kingsley is our best post presence and for whatever reason he doesn't seem to get the minutes I think he needs.
i like kingsley but i just don't see this when he's on the court- that may be due to the fact that he needs more minutes i don't know.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 10:23 am to piggilicious
quote:
i like kingsley but i just don't see this when he's on the court- that may be due to the fact that he needs more minutes i don't know.
Kingsley is highly underutilized. He's going to be a long time NBA player, IMO. He has fantastic feet, great awareness and basketball IQ, a soft touch, and plays good defense. He's an Olajuwon starter's kit. He'll never be anywhere near as good, but some of the post moves he's displayed dwarf moves that MANY starting NBA centers are capable of.
I would LOVE for Portis and Kingsley to get 10 minutes per game on the floor together. Fran, I think, made that point last night and I think it's one that a lot of us have been wanting to see more of. Bobby doesn't play under the basket, making him eerily similar to KG.
Beard
Bell
Qualls
Portis
Kingsley
I'd start that lineup, personally. I think I'd rather have Madden's scoring in the 2nd lineup and let him play more of the 2/3. Rotate Williams/Harris at the first dead ball for Kingsley, unless Portis already has a foul.
But those two guys are our most complete players. We need to get more out of them. Is there anyone here that would object to Alandise Harris getting 5 minutes per game, MAX, with Portis eating into his minutes while Kingsley eats into Portis'?
I was happy for Portis last night, having such a good offensive game in front of the scouts. But you have to expect they wanted to see a LITTLE bit better defense out of him. I know Niang is a tough matchup, but I can't help but think they were expecting a future lottery pick would get the better of Niang at least once or twice on defense.
As an aside, and since this is "basketball thoughts," am I the only one who was wondering why we kept playing such tight pressure on their guards 25+ from the basket? They need to sag the defense until the opposing team shows me they're going to start taking/making pull up three's. I would much rather let them beat me with pull up 3's than to let them continuously beat us on the perimeter, collapsing our defense until the opposition swings the ball around for wide open 3, after wide open 3. Most guys shoot their 3's much better as a set shot. Make them pull up and show they can hit rhythm 3's. It's a small thing, but watching so many NBA games this just stuck out at me like a sore thumb. No one played Tony Parker over the top of a screen and roll until he started making his pull up jumpers/3's.
Most of the loss last night had me embarassed. I didn't expect we would win going into it, but I sure did want to see more focus than what we saw last night. No, we may not see another team THAT good until Kentucky. And we may not play in an environment like that all that often and especially not against such a good team. But when/if we get to the NCAAT I sure hope we learn to reign in our focus and not beat ourselves. As well as ISU played last night, if we had simply had an AVERAGE game in regards to turnovers, and if we had attempted to play even a smidgen of defense in the half court, it would have been anyone's game.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 10:26 am to hogfly
quote:
We shot about as poorly as we could and they shot very well. As others have said, I'm not reading too much into this. It wasn't our night.
We actually shot pretty well compared to our road blowouts of late. We hovered around 50% the whole game and never really had long droughts. We just never really got in a sync on defense and they were on fire all night
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