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re: Are you an enabler or a demanding type of fan?
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:04 pm to presidenthog
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:04 pm to presidenthog
We really need to stop comparing our posters to HV posters once a topic. It's becoming our own local evocation of Godwin's Law.
I don't have any answers, but I'm not looking down on those who dislike Bert and/or want him gone. We fricking lost to Toledo. We only have enough room for one loss like that per decade, and ULM already took it. It's taking every ounce of rationality I have to not still be pissed about that.
I don't have any answers, but I'm not looking down on those who dislike Bert and/or want him gone. We fricking lost to Toledo. We only have enough room for one loss like that per decade, and ULM already took it. It's taking every ounce of rationality I have to not still be pissed about that.
1
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:06 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
when saban leaves bama will struggle. from government to business when a strong leader leaves there is a power vacuum left behind and unless they hire the next saban the next guy will win while Saban's recruits are there and will begin to falter. I think we can beat bama while he is there but we will never consistently be better than 3rd til he is gone. when he leaves that will be arkansas's best chance to rise to the top because of the power vacuum that will be left behind. we will not remain there for long either but we could have a small window of great success.
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:08 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
quote:
I'm just not yet ready to accept 3rd in the west is the best Arkansas football can do.
You're right. Probably looking at 4th best now that A&M has OWNED our asses since entering the conference.
We're shite. Will always be shite and have no hope to ever rise to more than winning a share of the west in a down year with Bama on probation and getting our shite pushed in during the SEC championship and then again when we get a bowl we don't need to be in and get prisoned raped by a real team. I've accepted this and am trying to come to terms with it.
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:09 pm to ocelot4ark
quote:
ocelot4ark
I thought it was wrong to call you a dickhead, even thought about defending you.
Reading your last gem of a post ive decided you are not, in fact, not a dickhead, but an a-hole
Go suck a dick old man
This post was edited on 10/11/15 at 10:10 pm
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:17 pm to lefty08
I'm 34, btw.
I'm fine with being an a-hole. Many here already see me as such. But at least I'm not living my life on my knees.
I'm fine with being an a-hole. Many here already see me as such. But at least I'm not living my life on my knees.
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:23 pm to VagueMessage
I am not excusing toledo. what I believe happened was our coach changed some things up, put and emphasis on improving the passing game (which I agreed with 100%) and in the process we lost our identity. I believe he learned he needed a dynamic passing game to go with his great run game. he just over compensated and miscalculated how much it would effect us. I have no doubt that will never happen again.
the way I look at it is
Bert's first few years he was laying the foundation for what he wanted and got the ground game and culture where he wanted it.
then he tried too hard to fix the weakness of our team and ramped the physicality down in an attempt to keep us healthy because we lacked depth and he believed that he could fix the passing game and the rest carry over.
fast forward to the beginning of the season and we lost because we lost what he thought we would keep. we could pass but we lost our desire to hit on defense and lost our run game.
now after the losses we have gotten our identity back but we still have a much much much better passing game.
this team is finally where it should be as far as identity and culture.
we have true balance finally the way we need to win, but we are now horribly injured on offense and the defense is really a year away from being great again.
even though undesired results happened in process. the ends will justify the means.
the same problems will not happen next year. the balance we have now and the culture now is finally where it needs to be, it just didn't come soon enough to not lose some games we couldn't really afford to lose. I have no doubt though this won't happen again, and next year we will finally come out of the gate with formula needed to win from beginning to end.
if you see things differently than this I understand. I just truly believe that is what happened.
I don't excuse him for losing to toledo. I just accept it because I know it was from an unintended error caused from him doing what needed to be done for us to compete at the highest level. If we ever lose another game like that with him I will be done with him. I just believe an oversight of that nature will not occur from here on out.
the way I look at it is
Bert's first few years he was laying the foundation for what he wanted and got the ground game and culture where he wanted it.
then he tried too hard to fix the weakness of our team and ramped the physicality down in an attempt to keep us healthy because we lacked depth and he believed that he could fix the passing game and the rest carry over.
fast forward to the beginning of the season and we lost because we lost what he thought we would keep. we could pass but we lost our desire to hit on defense and lost our run game.
now after the losses we have gotten our identity back but we still have a much much much better passing game.
this team is finally where it should be as far as identity and culture.
we have true balance finally the way we need to win, but we are now horribly injured on offense and the defense is really a year away from being great again.
even though undesired results happened in process. the ends will justify the means.
the same problems will not happen next year. the balance we have now and the culture now is finally where it needs to be, it just didn't come soon enough to not lose some games we couldn't really afford to lose. I have no doubt though this won't happen again, and next year we will finally come out of the gate with formula needed to win from beginning to end.
if you see things differently than this I understand. I just truly believe that is what happened.
I don't excuse him for losing to toledo. I just accept it because I know it was from an unintended error caused from him doing what needed to be done for us to compete at the highest level. If we ever lose another game like that with him I will be done with him. I just believe an oversight of that nature will not occur from here on out.
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:25 pm to ocelot4ark
quote:
in my old(er) age,
quote:
I'm 34, btw.
You shut this shite posting down right now. Nothing old about 34.
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:53 pm to presidenthog
quote:
I just accept it because I know it was from an unintended error caused from him doing what needed to be done
What in the hell kind of thinking is this ??? Unintended error?? When do coaches ever intend on losing???
Not sure if I should
or 
Maybe both. 
Posted on 10/11/15 at 10:56 pm to presidenthog
We're way past the point of hiring a guy to learn on the job.
$4 Mil a year you better come prepared. Signed, sealed, delivered, bonafide professional who can do more than look like a deer in headlights on the sidelines.
Bielema and staff flat out got out coached by Matt Campbell and Co. Got out coached by Kingsbury and Co. Got out coached by Sumlin and Co. again. Got out coached by Saban and Co. Nearly got out coached by Butch Jones and one of his old assistants.
People can say that the team didn't give up against Alabama or A&M but a team that constantly wilts in the 4th is a team that gives up and accepts that they're going to lose.
Jeff Long made a huge mistake if we're to just accept that Bielema has to learn how to build an SEC competitor type of squad. We could have paid Dino Babers 1/8th of what Bielema makes. You want to learn on the job, go coach DII, go coach Buffalo or coach a Mississippi JUCO.
Honestly a Mississippi JUCO coach would've been more in tune with the SEC style and the athletes needed to win in this conference, and the coaches in the High Schools that feed the programs in the SEC.
Bielema is continually bringing in assistants that don't have much SEC experience if any at all. That might be an issue that no-one is talking about.
Partridge = zero SEC experience
Shannon = zero SEC experience
Chaney = limited SEC experience at crappy Tennessee
Pittman = same
Jennings = zero SEC experience
Thomas = zero SEC experience
New RB Coach = zero SEC experience
Lunney = Played in the SEC, coached in C-USA on an overwhelmed Keith Burns Tulsa staff. zero SEC coaching experience
Seagrest = Played at Bama, only was a GA at Bama and Auburn.
Hargreaves = zero SEC experience
M. Smith = zero SEC experience
R. Smith = zero SEC experience
Enos = zero SEC experience
Bielema says all the time that the best predictor of future sucess is past performance. Well none of his coaches have ever won in the SEC.
We keep getting fed BS people.
$4 Mil a year you better come prepared. Signed, sealed, delivered, bonafide professional who can do more than look like a deer in headlights on the sidelines.
Bielema and staff flat out got out coached by Matt Campbell and Co. Got out coached by Kingsbury and Co. Got out coached by Sumlin and Co. again. Got out coached by Saban and Co. Nearly got out coached by Butch Jones and one of his old assistants.
People can say that the team didn't give up against Alabama or A&M but a team that constantly wilts in the 4th is a team that gives up and accepts that they're going to lose.
Jeff Long made a huge mistake if we're to just accept that Bielema has to learn how to build an SEC competitor type of squad. We could have paid Dino Babers 1/8th of what Bielema makes. You want to learn on the job, go coach DII, go coach Buffalo or coach a Mississippi JUCO.
Honestly a Mississippi JUCO coach would've been more in tune with the SEC style and the athletes needed to win in this conference, and the coaches in the High Schools that feed the programs in the SEC.
Bielema is continually bringing in assistants that don't have much SEC experience if any at all. That might be an issue that no-one is talking about.
Partridge = zero SEC experience
Shannon = zero SEC experience
Chaney = limited SEC experience at crappy Tennessee
Pittman = same
Jennings = zero SEC experience
Thomas = zero SEC experience
New RB Coach = zero SEC experience
Lunney = Played in the SEC, coached in C-USA on an overwhelmed Keith Burns Tulsa staff. zero SEC coaching experience
Seagrest = Played at Bama, only was a GA at Bama and Auburn.
Hargreaves = zero SEC experience
M. Smith = zero SEC experience
R. Smith = zero SEC experience
Enos = zero SEC experience
Bielema says all the time that the best predictor of future sucess is past performance. Well none of his coaches have ever won in the SEC.
We keep getting fed BS people.
Posted on 10/11/15 at 11:04 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
That was even more sobering than I'M in the mood for.
I guess I never thought about the staff that way before, but it's pretty eye opening.
You could probably get away with it at Florida with their bevy of recruits to choose from. We don't have that luxury.
I guess I never thought about the staff that way before, but it's pretty eye opening.
You could probably get away with it at Florida with their bevy of recruits to choose from. We don't have that luxury.
Posted on 10/11/15 at 11:31 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
I'm not sure which category I fall into but you could label me as a fan with expectations.
I knew as I'm sure many of us did when Petrino was terminated for good cause that the new coach coming on was going to need time to build the team. And I was fine with that. Some didn't think Petrino should be let go because they didn't want to stomach our program taking a hit with many anticipated losses as being part of the fallout. But I expected it and thought the right decision was made for the greater good. While I didn't know anything about CBB, that wasn't necessarily a bad thing as his resume seemed solid enough.
So we're into year three and the growth is still slow which is okay. As a fan I do expect a steady progression of improvement until the point where we become relevant again. For those of us who have been around awhile I remember when we used to beat Bama and win games that went into overtime. I remember having signature wins. My expectations are that we get back to that place. This isn't New Mexico or some other state where football has been historically bad and always will be. If it was then it would be easier to accept the state of things and just go on. The losses wouldn't hurt and indifference would set in. I would, as suggested in another thread on this board, most likely find other things to do on a Saturday. But I do not feel that's where we are or where we should be. That's certainly not where I want us to be. My feelings of fondness for the program are not generated by mediocrity, moral victories, playing the role of a spoiler, or "we played hard but just not good enough to win". We've got to get to the point where we regularly beat A & M like we used to, that we beat Alabama at BDS as we've done before and that we make to the SEC Championship Game as we've done before, just to cite a few examples of what I view as a successful Razorback football program.
I don't believe that my expectations are unreasonable or for that matter really that much different than the fan of any other team's expectations, or at least those that have or had some semblance of a truly competitive football program that actually won games with regularity. The verdict is still out on this season so we'll have to see if there is a progression and continued improvement. And I do believe that you have to judge the coach by his entire body of work and just not a good or bad game here and there. I'm not particularly optimistic at this juncture that better things will come but games remain to be played. At this point we really have no rational choice other than to wait.
I knew as I'm sure many of us did when Petrino was terminated for good cause that the new coach coming on was going to need time to build the team. And I was fine with that. Some didn't think Petrino should be let go because they didn't want to stomach our program taking a hit with many anticipated losses as being part of the fallout. But I expected it and thought the right decision was made for the greater good. While I didn't know anything about CBB, that wasn't necessarily a bad thing as his resume seemed solid enough.
So we're into year three and the growth is still slow which is okay. As a fan I do expect a steady progression of improvement until the point where we become relevant again. For those of us who have been around awhile I remember when we used to beat Bama and win games that went into overtime. I remember having signature wins. My expectations are that we get back to that place. This isn't New Mexico or some other state where football has been historically bad and always will be. If it was then it would be easier to accept the state of things and just go on. The losses wouldn't hurt and indifference would set in. I would, as suggested in another thread on this board, most likely find other things to do on a Saturday. But I do not feel that's where we are or where we should be. That's certainly not where I want us to be. My feelings of fondness for the program are not generated by mediocrity, moral victories, playing the role of a spoiler, or "we played hard but just not good enough to win". We've got to get to the point where we regularly beat A & M like we used to, that we beat Alabama at BDS as we've done before and that we make to the SEC Championship Game as we've done before, just to cite a few examples of what I view as a successful Razorback football program.
I don't believe that my expectations are unreasonable or for that matter really that much different than the fan of any other team's expectations, or at least those that have or had some semblance of a truly competitive football program that actually won games with regularity. The verdict is still out on this season so we'll have to see if there is a progression and continued improvement. And I do believe that you have to judge the coach by his entire body of work and just not a good or bad game here and there. I'm not particularly optimistic at this juncture that better things will come but games remain to be played. At this point we really have no rational choice other than to wait.
This post was edited on 10/11/15 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 10/11/15 at 11:57 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
I'm going to look up bobby's staff from 2010 and see how many of those guys had sec experience. I bet the only one was Tim horton. I doubt that made that big of a difference.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 12:10 am to presidenthog
I can tell you now that none of them did because they were all Bobby's boys.
pre-eta: Mike Summers spent a couple years as GA at Kentucky when he began his career, then at A&M for 3 back in the SWC and did a year on Les' staff at OSU.
also Steve Caldwell (who I'd want on the Arkansas staff immediately) coached at Tennessee for 14 seasons and won a natty. He did 2 years at Ole Miss before that. He was the guy getting E. Arkansas talent for Fulmer. The reason we've had good DE's is Caldwell spotted and recruited them. The last of which would be Wise and Lewis.
We all know that Petrino's teams had success because of the following 3 things.
1. Scheme
2. Lucked into Mallett and the best in-state WR class Arkansas has ever produced
3. Fear. He scared everybody into peak performance by being a maniacal masochist that put everybody in the Athletic Department on eggshells.
pre-eta: Mike Summers spent a couple years as GA at Kentucky when he began his career, then at A&M for 3 back in the SWC and did a year on Les' staff at OSU.
also Steve Caldwell (who I'd want on the Arkansas staff immediately) coached at Tennessee for 14 seasons and won a natty. He did 2 years at Ole Miss before that. He was the guy getting E. Arkansas talent for Fulmer. The reason we've had good DE's is Caldwell spotted and recruited them. The last of which would be Wise and Lewis.
We all know that Petrino's teams had success because of the following 3 things.
1. Scheme
2. Lucked into Mallett and the best in-state WR class Arkansas has ever produced
3. Fear. He scared everybody into peak performance by being a maniacal masochist that put everybody in the Athletic Department on eggshells.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 12:30 am to CtotheVrzrbck
but still that means a large majority of his staff wasn't sec caliber yet he delivered so it still means there is more to it than sec experience. Bobby had none but did have nfl experience as does most of CBB'S staff. I would assume that these guys having seen the highest caliber of football makes them qualified to know what a high caliber athlete looks like.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 5:55 am to presidenthog
34 and you call yourself old? i retrsct my suck dick old man comment
my apologies
my apologies
Posted on 10/12/15 at 8:00 am to CtotheVrzrbck
quote:
People can say that the team didn't give up against Alabama or A&M but a team that constantly wilts in the 4th is a team that gives up and accepts that they're going to lose.
Spot-on. I don't understand people saying "at least this team doesn't give up."
I agree, it's great that our guys don't sit on the bench for the 4th quarter, but honestly it would not affect our offensive production very much if they did.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 8:38 am to The Sultan of Swine
People are touchy on this board lately. Arkansas needs to beat Auburn so everyone will calm down
Posted on 10/12/15 at 8:39 am to Hogwarts
quote:
Arkansas needs to beat Auburn so everyone will calm down
Posted on 10/12/15 at 9:03 am to sugatowng
This place will go nuclear if we somehow lose to Auburn.
Luckily they really really suck and we wont. But stranger things have happened.
Luckily they really really suck and we wont. But stranger things have happened.
Posted on 10/12/15 at 9:14 am to STLhog
quote:
This place will go nuclear if we somehow lose to Auburn
if we lose that game, i want him fired- plain and simple. if we win and continue showing improvement, i give him one more year only due to the injuries at the beginning of the season.
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