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re: OT: GHSA needs fewer classifications
Posted on 11/23/16 at 6:24 pm to BranchDawg
Posted on 11/23/16 at 6:24 pm to BranchDawg
This is the happy medium. I guess I just don't understand your gripe. Everything sorts itself out after the first round anyways.
Looking at the playoffs there were around 250 teams that made the playoffs. It looks like until you get to the AA and lower that you have to find more than 2-3 who had losing records. Most of those are from South Georgia where all of the schools are so spread out. And for those complaining about the byes in A you should point the finger at the public schools that wanted a split with the private schools. Otherwise there would be much fewer teams with losing records and no byes.
Looking at the playoffs there were around 250 teams that made the playoffs. It looks like until you get to the AA and lower that you have to find more than 2-3 who had losing records. Most of those are from South Georgia where all of the schools are so spread out. And for those complaining about the byes in A you should point the finger at the public schools that wanted a split with the private schools. Otherwise there would be much fewer teams with losing records and no byes.
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Posted on 11/23/16 at 7:27 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
That private/public split in single A was a good and necessary move IMO. It is next to impossible for a county with an ENTIRE county high school population of 300 or so students to compete with the single A private schools in the metro areas.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 7:43 pm to VADawg
Teams with shite records win state fairly frequently in Ohio.
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I actually meant to bring up this aspect of it too. My old high school has dwindled down to a AA school. For tradiiions sake, they still start out playing Colquitt Co, Thomas Co Central, & Cairo which are all usually strong programs in AAAAAAA, AAAAA, & AAAA. So, you're likely gonna have 2-3 losses right off that bat, and then could run the tables in AA. So, a 4 or 5 loss season isn't always indicative of an a team being average and certainly doesn't make them unworthy to compete in the State playoff run.
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I actually meant to bring up this aspect of it too. My old high school has dwindled down to a AA school. For tradiiions sake, they still start out playing Colquitt Co, Thomas Co Central, & Cairo which are all usually strong programs in AAAAAAA, AAAAA, & AAAA. So, you're likely gonna have 2-3 losses right off that bat, and then could run the tables in AA. So, a 4 or 5 loss season isn't always indicative of an a team being average and certainly doesn't make them unworthy to compete in the State playoff run.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 7:44 pm to MeatCleaverWeaver
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing, but it's watered things down.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 7:50 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
My gripe is, I've seen AAA schools play AAAA schools, AAAA play 5A, etc, etc, and there's not that big a difference. Certainly not big enough to warrant a competitive relegation between them.
Yes, obviously Mill Creek should not be competing with Rabun County, because there IS a clear competitive advantage when you have 3 to 4 times the population (in the OP I said I was actually ok with the top 44 and pub/priv split), but that's not really an issue IMO in the middle classes.
We can have larger regions, with more truly impactful games, more meaningful postseasons and more local matchups if we stop making mountains of 200-400 kid molehills. Just seems unnecessary to me.
Yes, obviously Mill Creek should not be competing with Rabun County, because there IS a clear competitive advantage when you have 3 to 4 times the population (in the OP I said I was actually ok with the top 44 and pub/priv split), but that's not really an issue IMO in the middle classes.
We can have larger regions, with more truly impactful games, more meaningful postseasons and more local matchups if we stop making mountains of 200-400 kid molehills. Just seems unnecessary to me.
Posted on 11/23/16 at 8:02 pm to BranchDawg
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My gripe is, I've seen AAA schools play AAAA schools, AAAA play 5A, etc, etc, and there's not that big a difference. Certainly not big enough to warrant a competitive relegation between them.
You see the top teams play each other and there is not much of a a difference usually. But when you're talking about the playoffs and some good teams in AAA wouldn't even make the playoffs.
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We can have larger regions, with more truly impactful games, more meaningful postseasons and more local matchups if we stop making mountains of 200-400 kid molehills. Just seems unnecessary to me.
400 students is a big deal though. You're talking about 200 more boys to choose from which means about 5-10 more athletes. That's a huge difference. It may not seem like much to your but I can promise you that it is.
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We can have larger regions, with more truly impactful games, more meaningful postseasons and more local matchups if we stop making mountains of 200-400 kid molehills. Just seems unnecessary to me.
We are one of the top states in the nation for high school football. Why do we need to have more impactful games? You may not care about them but there are thousands of kids who are having the time of their life playing these games. Is it not worth it for them, their families, the band, the bands families, the coaches?
Posted on 11/23/16 at 9:44 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
Yes, 400 more students is a big deal and 700-1000+ is a much bigger deal.
I live in Bremen and we have a single A enrollment(625) but we're one of a few teams who lost their appeal due to the out of district multiplier. We were put into 3A this year and it is a big difference. It might be able to be made equal if we recruited athletes but that is one thing that the Board and the District Super are adamantly against. We have about 120 out of district students who typically start in elementary school in Bremen for academics and matriculate through. We rarely get a high caliber athlete in those numbers. Damn good students but not many athletes.
But we did compete better this year than I thought we would and won as a 4th seed over a 1 seed in round one. Lost to Pierce County in round 2 last week. We just can't compete well with the best 5-6 in 3A. A lot of the unexpected success can be attributed to 1st year coach Davis Russell and his staff. He is the grandson of Erk Russell.
I live in Bremen and we have a single A enrollment(625) but we're one of a few teams who lost their appeal due to the out of district multiplier. We were put into 3A this year and it is a big difference. It might be able to be made equal if we recruited athletes but that is one thing that the Board and the District Super are adamantly against. We have about 120 out of district students who typically start in elementary school in Bremen for academics and matriculate through. We rarely get a high caliber athlete in those numbers. Damn good students but not many athletes.
But we did compete better this year than I thought we would and won as a 4th seed over a 1 seed in round one. Lost to Pierce County in round 2 last week. We just can't compete well with the best 5-6 in 3A. A lot of the unexpected success can be attributed to 1st year coach Davis Russell and his staff. He is the grandson of Erk Russell.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 8:11 am to Porter Osborne Jr
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So let's screw over the the dozens who did deserve it because a handful didn't. And that makes sense to you.
Screw over? no. Of course not. But, only the best should go to the playoffs. There have always been very good teams and players that did not make the playoffs. The more teams you allow into the playoffs the more watered down the playoffs will become. That's just a fact. I'm not sure how you equate allowing only the very best teams into the playoffs with screwing over anybody.
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Also, this isn't the 1970's anymore.
Actually, I did play in the 1970's!
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We have had this thing called a population boom that's seen our numbers double. And when you played there were half the students but there were only 2 fewer divisions and complaining about it being watered down.
Population etc. doesn't matter. I just think that only the very best teams should go. The school I went to went from the second largest classification down to one of the lower classifications....and they aren't very good anymore. (Actually they made the playoffs this year, and are still, ironically still in the playoffs.
This post was edited on 11/24/16 at 8:14 am
Posted on 11/24/16 at 8:17 am to VADawg
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go 5-5 and get the 7 or 8 seed in their region.
Interesting. they go by overall record and not region record? I think in Georgia (At least it used to be this way) we went by region record. We also played everybody in our region. We only had 1 or 2 non-region games.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 8:41 am to DawgsLife
Only the best should get in? I guess you don't enjoy March Madness or any pro sports playoffs. You are cheating some very good to great teams if you had it your way.
And Ohio uses a ratings system to determine who gets in. It rewards those who have played a hard schedule.
And Ohio uses a ratings system to determine who gets in. It rewards those who have played a hard schedule.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 9:05 am to Porter Osborne Jr
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I guess you don't enjoy March Madness
Actually, I don't. But that has to do more with my distaste for basketball than anything else. But, even if I liked basketball I thin they have WAY too many teams in March Madness. But there is a big difference in basketball and football.
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You are cheating some very good to great teams if you had it your way.
Cheating? No. great? No. I saw an excellent West Rome team get left out of the playoffs one year when they tied East Rome at the end of the regular season. (I think WR even beat ER head to head) It went to the coaches to vote on who should make the playoffs and they voted for ER. Now THAT was a travesty. (No, I was not playing for either team at the time)
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And Ohio uses a ratings system to determine who gets in. It rewards those who have played a hard schedule.
That seems very subjective, but if it works for them....I'll bet there is a lot of screaming and hollering going on when they are choosing!
ETA
My bad. I just went and checked. WR and ER tied during the regular season. That was the only bemish on either of their records in the region.
By the way....I am guessing you are familiar with the Georgia High School Historians site? EXCELLENT source of past seasons (Updated each year at the end of the seasons, I believe) for information!
LINK
This post was edited on 11/24/16 at 9:12 am
Posted on 11/24/16 at 9:48 am to DawgsLife
quote:Yes, you and branchdawg are wanting to cheat those deserving teams out of a chance to play in the playoffs all because you are being selfish and want every game to be meaningful or impactful.
Cheating?
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great? No
If things went your way you would be leaving 9-1 teams out of the playoff again all because they have to play in a tough region. Lowndes, North Cobb, Mountain View, Northside WR, Alexander, Northgate, Harrison, Johns Creek all are or have been ranked in the top ten and would have been left out simply because you two want fewer games.
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By the way....I am guessing you are familiar with the Georgia High School Historians site? EXCELLENT source of past seasons (Updated each year at the end of the seasons, I believe) for information!
I love that website. I can get lost in it for hours.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 10:40 am to Porter Osborne Jr
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If things went your way you would be leaving 9-1 teams out of the playoff again
For the record, I'm good with the top 4 in the region getting in, I just want bigger regions. There is NO way in my perfect world that a 9-1 team misses out.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 10:53 am to DawgsLife
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Interesting. they go by overall record and not region record? I think in Georgia (At least it used to be this way) we went by region record. We also played everybody in our region. We only had 1 or 2 non-region games.
Ohio is set up differently. It is so much different than Georgia and Texas where I have lived previously (GA and TX have similar set ups).
Here, teams are broken into leagues regardless of enrollment. I played at a division 6 school (equal to A in Georgia) and we played league games against D3 (AAAA in Georgia) and D4 schools, for example. At the end of the season, teams are seeded 1-8 in their regions based on computer rankings. The four region winners move on to the state semifinals.
I personally hate the system here but it's done like this for travel purposes. Our farthest road trip for a league game was 20-30 minutes.
This post was edited on 11/24/16 at 10:55 am
Posted on 11/24/16 at 11:28 am to BranchDawg
South Georgia screws up the regions because they are so spread out.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 2:54 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
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South Georgia screws up the regions because they are so spread out.
Sorry, only Atlanta area schools should be allowed to participate. That will do it.
frick Valdosta and their 22 state championships. Sorry to inconvenience you.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 4:05 pm to WhopperDawg
Nice reading comprehension you have there old man. Maybe read the whole fricking thread first before you hop on your pedestal.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 7:30 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
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Yes, you and branchdawg are wanting to cheat those deserving teams out of a chance to play in the playoffs all because you are being selfish and want every game to be meaningful or impactful.
There will always be teams that will not make the playoffs. Some team, maybe more than a few, will think they deserve to go. At some point you have to draw the line. You think 4 from every region is reasonable. I think the first two in each region is reasonable. Either way, you will have someone saying they were cheated out of going to the playoffs.
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If things went your way you would be leaving 9-1 teams out of the playoff again all because they have to play in a tough region. Lowndes, North Cobb, Mountain View, Northside WR, Alexander, Northgate, Harrison, Johns Creek all are or have been ranked in the top ten and would have been left out simply because you two want fewer games.
None of those teams finished as high as 2nd in their region?
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I love that website. I can get lost in it for hours.
It's a great web site. I'm like you. I go through teams that I have had any kind of association with. Look at players that made it to the NFL....All-State players, records and individual reslts of games....there is so much information. I try to mention it every now and then on here, and to other knowledgeable fans when i run into them.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 7:35 pm to VADawg
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I personally hate the system here but it's done like this for travel purposes. Our farthest road trip for a league game was 20-30 minutes.
I loved the away games. One team I played for (I went to two different High Schools) used to run across the field as a warm up several times. (2-3 times) When we would get to the opposing teams side they would all start booing and yelling stuff at us. It always got me fired up. We never lost a regular season game while I was at that school. (It wasn't because of me...we had some great players on the team) I HAT super teams that are recruited. IMG Academy and teams like them.
Posted on 11/24/16 at 8:24 pm to DawgsLife
I guess I just don't get why you think four teams is too many. We've expanded them because we have so many schools now.
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