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re: OT: Bye Simba..........
Posted on 11/12/15 at 8:26 pm to HellRaisingDawg
Posted on 11/12/15 at 8:26 pm to HellRaisingDawg
We’re gonna suck for like the next 4 years because Hart and Copollela want to pretend they are Theo Epstein.
Well, 4 years is a bit lenient.
Well, 4 years is a bit lenient.
1
Posted on 11/12/15 at 8:29 pm to Damn Good Dawg
Simmons was AWFUL offensively. We got a pretty much sure fire future ace is Newcomb (well as sure fire as you can get in Baseball), Aybar won't last a full year with the Braves before he's traded. Simmons is cool and it sucks to lose his defense but he really was just an average player and the Braves got a haul for him.
Posted on 11/12/15 at 8:44 pm to td01241
According to Kieth Law, Newcomb (the centerpiece) projects as a #2 SP.
Simmons is not good offensively, but he's not terrible either. What he is though is a Hall of Fame caliber defensive short stop who has been no worse than Ozzie Smith was at the plate (identical OPS)
Since 2013 he's 36% better than the next closest guy in defensive runs saved, and he was one of the answers on this team for the next 4+ years. The problem just boils down to a lack of consistent strategy. They have one foot in the pool while keeping the other one out. Half the time they are trading away young established players for a haul of prospects and the other half of the time they are trading young established players for old guys who won't be producing 2-3 years down the road.
Simmons is not good offensively, but he's not terrible either. What he is though is a Hall of Fame caliber defensive short stop who has been no worse than Ozzie Smith was at the plate (identical OPS)
Since 2013 he's 36% better than the next closest guy in defensive runs saved, and he was one of the answers on this team for the next 4+ years. The problem just boils down to a lack of consistent strategy. They have one foot in the pool while keeping the other one out. Half the time they are trading away young established players for a haul of prospects and the other half of the time they are trading young established players for old guys who won't be producing 2-3 years down the road.
Posted on 11/12/15 at 8:50 pm to td01241
I mean I have hope but at this point even the most positive fan would have trouble seeing this team be worth a shite for a while
Posted on 11/12/15 at 9:16 pm to tylerdurden24
quote:
Don't you know? It takes a minimum 7 years to completely destroy a franchise before you can build it back up.
Make no mistake about it. This isn't about building the program back up... even with the tearing it down. This is about prepping the team for a sale. Shiny new stadium in the affluent suburbs that Liberty Media isn't paying much for. Blank slate with a very low payroll that a new owner can toy with to his hearts content. Marks my words.
Not that it would be a bad thing for those tightwads fricks at Liberty Media to sell the team.
Posted on 11/12/15 at 9:23 pm to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
I mean I have hope but at this point even the most positive fan would have trouble seeing this team be worth a shite for a while
lol this is pretty accurate. I didn't hate the Kimbrel, Heyward, Gattis, Upton trades before the season. The Braves had a good team, but they did not have the flexibility with either money or minor league prospects in order to be better than just a borderline playoff team. So, blow the thing up and shoot for 2017. So, even knowing that 2015 would be an awful year I had hope that I would only have to go through a year or two of it and then the team would be positioned to make a run for years to come.
After the Olivera trade where they traded young guys for a 30 year old and this where they traded a young proven player for a younger unproven player...my hope has vanished.
Posted on 11/12/15 at 9:31 pm to Dawgs28
Nailed it
Posted on 11/13/15 at 7:09 am to Damn Good Dawg
Why are the Angels bitching about offense
Aybar hit .270 3 hr 44rbi
Simmons hit .265 4hr 44rbi
One his a journeyman the other is the best defensive player in the game. Simmions saved 113 runs the last 4 years that's 71 more then the next closest SS. That's like an extra 30 rbi a season.
Aybar hit .270 3 hr 44rbi
Simmons hit .265 4hr 44rbi
One his a journeyman the other is the best defensive player in the game. Simmions saved 113 runs the last 4 years that's 71 more then the next closest SS. That's like an extra 30 rbi a season.
Posted on 11/13/15 at 7:16 am to sudogs
The Braves are now the 76ers of baseball
Posted on 11/13/15 at 7:22 am to Crowknowsbest
At least they didn't trade him to the Mets for Harvey 
Posted on 11/13/15 at 12:34 pm to Dawgs28
It's pretty clear at this point 2018 is the target. 2017 was always a pipe dream. We are in a full blown rebuild. Teams like us don't have the financial backing to rebuild in the same way to Dodgers or Yankees do. This has to be done. The only thing that doesn't really make since to me is the Olivera thing since he will be 33ish by the time the team is ready to contend (per the plan). The only positive thing with that is will be a "young" 33 because he has hardly played in the majors but he won't even play the position we traded for him to play. Oh well. If the rest of the moves pay off and that one misfires it won't mean much. Apparently Freeman could be next also.
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 12:49 pm to td01241
I don't know that this particular trade needed to be done though. It just doesn't have the feel of a full rebuild because we traded an already young player under team control for a prospect and a guy who is walking to free agency after next season.
Best case is they find a way to get a few more prospects out of an Aybar trade to make it more like we got a young haul out of Simmons. If you could only get 1 legit prospect out of the best defensive player in the game who is under contract through 2020 then what are you going to get out of Aybar who is a free agent in 11 months? The last couple of moves just don't really seem to fit the necessary full rebuild strategy that we started 2015 with.
Best case is they find a way to get a few more prospects out of an Aybar trade to make it more like we got a young haul out of Simmons. If you could only get 1 legit prospect out of the best defensive player in the game who is under contract through 2020 then what are you going to get out of Aybar who is a free agent in 11 months? The last couple of moves just don't really seem to fit the necessary full rebuild strategy that we started 2015 with.
This post was edited on 11/13/15 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 11/13/15 at 1:03 pm to Dawgs28
Because his value is as high now as it ever is going to be. The Braves were concerned with his offense seemingly regressing not getting better. He is an elite elite defender but absolutely awful at the plate. He doesn't strike out but he doesn't get productive outs or walk either. Not very much power to speak of. We will see if it works out or not.
Posted on 11/14/15 at 10:24 am to td01241
He's not "awful" at the plate. For his position he was average-slightly above average (positive oWar every season in the bigs). Shortstop is just not a high offense position, with extremely few exceptions, so you can't judge their offense to the same level that you would a first basemen.
I understand that his value was at it's highest, but that's the case for pretty much any 26 year old player. I'm not a huge sabremetrics person, but they do help to tell a story. He was top 20 in the NL in total WAR. That's the guy we had locked up through 2020 and traded him for a single prospect. No matter how great the pitching, we need some guys to play the field. We don't have those guys in our farm system, and we don't have enough minor league pitchers to trade away to field a starting 8.
I understand that his value was at it's highest, but that's the case for pretty much any 26 year old player. I'm not a huge sabremetrics person, but they do help to tell a story. He was top 20 in the NL in total WAR. That's the guy we had locked up through 2020 and traded him for a single prospect. No matter how great the pitching, we need some guys to play the field. We don't have those guys in our farm system, and we don't have enough minor league pitchers to trade away to field a starting 8.
This post was edited on 11/14/15 at 10:25 am
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