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re: ***Coaching changes discussion***
Posted on 2/23/16 at 2:06 pm to cardboardboxer
Posted on 2/23/16 at 2:06 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
Seems like we have an issue getting five star RBs to live up to expectations (Goodson, Michael).
It seems like they've all come with a catch. The only durable every-down back we've had in the past decade was probably Cyrus. Michael and Tra weren't fast enough, Goodson had baggage off the field, Trey Williams didn't know how to run north and south, Brandon was a transfer for a reason, etc. You think LF7 listens to coaching? Look at this shite: you think he was coached to do this? We haven't had near the talent of a truly "elite" RB in over a decade, at minimum.
This post was edited on 2/23/16 at 2:08 pm
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Posted on 2/23/16 at 2:07 pm to agalloch
quote:
Michael and Tra weren't fast enough
Christine Michael has the longest run from scrimmage in A&M history. Might want to check that claim again.
Now if you said that Michael was unwilling to block or had an attitude problem that would be far more accurate.
This post was edited on 2/23/16 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 2/23/16 at 2:08 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Wasn't that against Baylor? I don't know how much of an accomplishment that was 
Posted on 2/23/16 at 2:10 pm to agalloch
quote:
Wasn't that against Baylor? I don't know how much of an accomplishment that was
A 97-yard touchdown run. Also the longest play from scrimmage in A&M history. It doesn't matter who it's against.
You don't run 90+ yards without getting caught if you don't have speed.
The only pure yardage plays longer in our history are all kickoff returns.
This post was edited on 2/23/16 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 2/23/16 at 2:12 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that he was never elite, not even Joe Flacco elite. It's not like he didn't have great offensive lines either. Pete Carroll can't even get his obvious talent to work.
Posted on 2/23/16 at 2:28 pm to agalloch
He was also injured quite regularly. Combine that with issues in the passing game. You have what we had. It is also the reason he did not catch on with the Cowboys after not catching on with the Seahawks.
Posted on 2/23/16 at 4:28 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
Can you remember the last time A&M had an elite RB? Neither can we.
ohh ohh ohh!
is this the part of the thread where we blame coaches for players not doing as well as a random scout on 247 or rivals projected while ignoring things like injuries, football IQ, and their own willingness to put in the time to improve?
It's the coaches fault James White was dealing with injuries that stunted his abilities all year! It's the coaches fault Trey Williams never could learn how to block for shite!! It's the coaches fault Mike Goodson was a raging a-hole with the IQ of a rock!!!
Posted on 2/23/16 at 4:36 pm to Houston Summit
Both Cyrus & Michael and Gray & Lane were pretty darn good combos. I don't know about "elite" but I think all of them made it into the NFL and a couple of them played a few seasons.
Posted on 2/23/16 at 4:43 pm to Dr RC
quote:
It's the coaches fault Trey Williams never could learn how to block for shite!!
I know you are being facetious but I actually agree with this point. The same reason Trey Will "couldn't" block is the same reason he left early- he never got over the entitlement that comes with being a five star recruit. He never got the hunger to succeed, as he thought the NFL was a guaranteed option day one. College was the thing he put up with until they let him make his money.
If he would have gone to Bama (for example) he would have learned to block and be a better player. Year one he would have redshirted holding someone else's water, year two he would have been almost kicked off the team for his attitude, then year three and four he would have lead the SEC in rushing yards. They have a system for turning recruiting rockstars into real players.
Our current staff definitely has a problem keeping big egos in check. Tra the three star being a starter isn't really a surprise- he is the only one that had to earn his place every step of the way.
Posted on 2/23/16 at 4:58 pm to cardboardboxer
In insurance, it's what we call "adverse selection".
I'm not so sure it is the coaching staff's fault.
It's more just due to who WE are in the football landscape.
The reason we get the occasional 5* in the first place is because they're the 5* who WON'T wait his turn at a bigger-time program. They select us because they can play as fish or sophs here.
Then, due to the nature of the kind of guy who can't wait his turn, they end up being hard to coach and/or incredibly entitled.
Adverse selection.
Saban gets the guys who are 5* AND willing to wait and learn and then he makes them wait and learn, because he's getting first pick. He's picking THEM instead of the other way around.
I'm not so sure it is the coaching staff's fault.
It's more just due to who WE are in the football landscape.
The reason we get the occasional 5* in the first place is because they're the 5* who WON'T wait his turn at a bigger-time program. They select us because they can play as fish or sophs here.
Then, due to the nature of the kind of guy who can't wait his turn, they end up being hard to coach and/or incredibly entitled.
Adverse selection.
Saban gets the guys who are 5* AND willing to wait and learn and then he makes them wait and learn, because he's getting first pick. He's picking THEM instead of the other way around.
Posted on 2/23/16 at 6:10 pm to Cooter Davenport
quote:
I'm not so sure it is the coaching staff's fault.
Sure it is. They sign and recruit the kid.
I mean I get what you are saying, but at some level it is the coach's job balancing taking 5 star sloppy seconds and having a cohesive team. Teams like Arkansas and Michigan St. find a way to beat people without having to deal with entitled five stars. Locker room chemistry matters, even if we can't pick through kids like Nick does.
Sumlin has been playing the numbers game since day one, taking risky but highly regarded recruits to try and create a momentum around the program. And for those efforts we had a 2012 class (including Trey Will) that for the most part was a disaster to our depth, and a five star legacy that almost tore apart the program because of his entitlement. The 2014 class was great because of JFF and not because we signed risks in 2012.
Is it hard to know what sloppy seconds five stars are worth it and which ones aren't? Sure, I couldn't do it. But I don't get paid five million a year to try.
My main criticism with Sumlin is that he has been TOO focused on building a narrative, building hype, and not focused enough on building a team of players that fit together. Knowing how he has changed his recruiting he might agree, and I think going forward he will look for different traits out of players. But it might be too little too late if we can't get some production out of the roster full of sloppy seconds that we do have.
Posted on 2/23/16 at 6:33 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
And for those efforts we had a 2012 class (including Trey Will) that for the most part was a disaster to our depth
Don't you mean 2013?
Out of the 18 enrollees from the 2012 class:
5 were multi-year starters
2 were starters for at least a year
2 were quality depth
50% isn't a great hit rate, but it's not nearly the disaster that the 2013 class was.
Posted on 2/23/16 at 7:00 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Don't you mean 2013?
That too.
quote:
50% isn't a great hit rate
Exactly.
Posted on 2/23/16 at 9:33 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
But it might be too little too late if we can't get some production out of the roster full of sloppy seconds that we do have.
Lol we don't have a roster of sloppy seconds. At some key positions? Yes. Depth wise? Yes. But we have a pretty talented starting 22.
Posted on 2/24/16 at 12:16 am to NanosTacoRun
quote:
Lol we don't have a roster of sloppy seconds. At some key positions? Yes. Depth wise? Yes. But we have a pretty talented starting 22.
Sure, but are they pieces of a cohesive unit? Do we have a cohesive strategy that emphasizes traits of certain players over other traits?
That seems like a no. The offense lost its focus when KK left (are we HUNH? spread? power run?) and it seems Chavis values a different kind of player than Snyder did. Chavis and Mazzone weren't hired because they excelled at the system that the talent in place was recruited to play. They were hired because they are top professionals on their side of the ball (when they have the players they need for their system in place). That is a mismatch that takes years of recruiting to fix.
So yes the roster is very talented, the most talented for A&M in decades, but it is like an isle of misfit toys. And quite frankly too much of the elite talent is gone after next season. Hopefully those misfits lineup and make a bigger splash than the sum of the parts so that way we don't have to reboot everything and start over again.
Posted on 2/24/16 at 12:50 am to cardboardboxer
It's year 2 of Chavis, after a good 1st year. And Mazzone has a proven track record of improving offenses with players he didn't recruit.
This staff has been improved in a major way. Not sure why people insist on being pessimistic about the season.
This staff has been improved in a major way. Not sure why people insist on being pessimistic about the season.
Posted on 2/24/16 at 12:57 am to NanosTacoRun
what you said is true, but there are two huge unknowns...qb play and the o line. While we have improved coaching at those positions I have no idea what to expect.
This post was edited on 2/24/16 at 4:09 am
Posted on 2/24/16 at 7:19 am to NanosTacoRun
quote:
It's year 2 of Chavis, after a good 1st year.
He did well coaching, not recruiting. We didn't bring in loads of the kind of players he likes to have on NSD.
quote:
Not sure why people insist on being pessimistic about the season.
I am not very pessimistic about next season, I expect ten wins.
My worry is that it will be a mirage, and when a lot of talent leaves after next season we don't have the depth to replace them. We need to almost win the SEC to sign the kind of class next year needed to prevent a major drop off in 2017.
Posted on 2/24/16 at 7:59 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
Sure it is. They sign and recruit the kid.
But they're compelled to take 5* risks because of how cutthroat their industry is. They have to show results immediately. In other industries, like insurance, you can carefully avoid adverse selection by forgoing immediate top-line results for a more stable base and better bottom-line a decade later. Coaches of teams like A&M don't have that luxury, so they have to be gamblers.
Posted on 2/24/16 at 8:11 am to Cooter Davenport
quote:
But they're compelled to take 5* risks because of how cutthroat their industry is. They have to show results immediately. In other industries, like insurance, you can carefully avoid adverse selection by forgoing immediate top-line results for a more stable base and better bottom-line a decade later. Coaches of teams like A&M don't have that luxury, so they have to be gamblers.
Fair enough.
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