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re: Bowl Match Up
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:02 pm to greenbastard
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:02 pm to greenbastard
My brutha 
(throws up in mouth
)
(throws up in mouth
)
0
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:19 pm to finestfirst79
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I look forward to it, sincerely.
Awesome.
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But no matter what, you're wrong about playing Texas.
Maybe. We play them and beat them and we look like a genius.
But we play them and lose and we flush all the JFF and SEC move momentum down the toilet. It would be the first nail in Sumlin's coffin, which means a very unfun few lame duck years and a bigger hole that the next coach maybe can crawl out of. That is a lot of risk.
You and the Old Army Ags have been too ready to always jump in the well, to take that risk. And what do we have to show for all those risks? A program that has not come near its potential, has no modern national titles, at one point a nearly bankrupt AD, and if we are honest a forced move to the SEC because the credit line on our brand value was nearly maxed out and we HAD TO go to dig ourselves out of that brand hole vis a vis Texas.
They have always played the role of Needles in Back To The Future 3, calling us chicken and then wrecking our program when we race to prove our bravery. To hell with what the people of Texas deserve, they are "The University of Texas" in name, let them carry the burden of expectations alone. Until we win a national title or two we can't afford to take that risk, our card is maxed out.
It doesn't matter anyway, we haven't even been invited to a bowl and so many people already believe the lie. Just like you fear, they already see us as cowards because a coward said so.
Doing things because others have impressed on you that they deserve it, or that you are a coward to avoid it, is weak minded IMHO. We Aggies have been so proud of our bravery, our willingness to always take that punch we didn't have to take, that we have missed the fact that we should be doing the punching- not them.
Old Army sells themselves on the lie that doing things the hard way, "the right way," will bring us the reward in the end. Well it hasn't in a hundred years, and it won't in the next hundred if left alone. We can either choose to continue to be the solder who volunteers for the front lines and just as likely gets shot as becomes a hero, or we can hang back and let someone else take the bullet for once while we move up the ranks.
Thanks to Old Army we have taken enough dumb and uncalculated bravado risk that now we don't even control our own brand anymore- the SEC does. If the reality that we failed so completely on our own because of our pig headed ego that we HAD TO pay a bigger bully with eyeballs to fight our fight for us doesn't show you the light then I don't know what will. We are have to hide behind the SEC skirt because Old Army made a bunch of assumptions that were wrong or only applied in their world. No matter how great of a program we become one day, we will always know we couldn't do it on our own. On our own we are bullheaded failures.
I hate to be so negative, but this is deep down reason number one I loved the SEC move back in 2010- people with the same perspective as you don't make all the big decisions now. Chip's source says the SEC is the one trying to get us out of the match up. If there is an ounce of truth to that it means my prayers are answered and our brand is being managed by the guys who won seven national titles in a row and not the guys who beat their head into an orange wall for a hundred years and felt proud about it.
It means that one day, maybe, we will win a national title and be a national brand. Maybe we can have a program that gives Aggies a reason to puff our chests. If you want to get down to what people deserve what, I think all those good Aggie fans who have paid good money and trusted pig headed leaders for years deserve that. They deserve some good decisions and some real success. To hell with everyone else, and to hell with Texas!
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 10:40 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:57 pm to cardboardboxer
Did you change your mind from earlier in the thread, or did I miss something?
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:01 pm to cardboardboxer
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But we play them and lose and we flush all the JFF and SEC move momentum down the toilet.
And if we didn't play football at all, there would be absolutely no risk.
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You and the Old Army Ags have been too ready to always jump in the well, to take that risk. And what do we have to show for all those risks? A program that has not come near its potential, has no modern national titles, at one point a nearly bankrupt AD, and if we are honest a forced move to the SEC because the credit line on our brand value was nearly maxed out and we HAD TO go to dig ourselves out of that brand hole vis a vis Texas.
Sorry but this is all gibberish to me. I have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to be saying that A&M ran away to the SEC for greater success. WTF is wrong with you?
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It doesn't matter anyway, we haven't even been invited to a bowl and so many people already believe the lie. Just like you fear, they already see us as cowards because a coward said so.
What I fear or you fear is irrelevant here. One thing I really, really hate about modern media is that once somebody with a voice puts some utter nonsense out there, it becomes the truth to the public whether it is true or not. Chip Brown needs to have his balls cut off. You heard it here first. But my opinion on playing Texas isn't based on any of that. I don't give a damn what the general public thinks of A&M. I want A&M to play Texas. It ain't complicated.
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Thanks to Old Army we have taken enough dumb and uncalculated bravado risk that now we don't even control our own brand anymore- the SEC does.
Thank you for this. I now feel completely comfortable saying, "frick you, kid, you don't know what the hell you're talking about." I just want to play Texas. Again, it isn't complicated. Football fans across Texas would love it, and to me that's all that really matters.
You're apparently concerned about recruiting... How big of a recruiting hit do you think we're getting right now over the (completely unsubstantiated but for some unfathomable reason confirmed by Ark posters) notion that A&M is afraid to play Texas??? Play the bastards. Beat 'em sometimes, lose other times. That's how it goes. Does anybody here actually believe the UT football program is going to dry up and blow away if A&M achieves success? If not, then what the hell is all of this fraidy-cat stuff about? A lot of you young'uns come across as marketing majors to me with all of this brand bullshite, which makes me feel justified in another "frick you, kid."
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:02 pm to SafetySam
Yeah, I changed my mind. More than that I hate the idea of doing something just to avoid being called a coward.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:24 pm to finestfirst79
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And if we didn't play football at all, there would be absolutely no risk.
That is a false dichotomy. There is such a thing as smart risk taking, ask any financial advisor.
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You seem to be saying that A&M ran away to the SEC for greater success.
We did.
Our brand was crap in the Big 12. It simply was. We not only gave talented 18 year old football players no reason to prefer our football brand over Texas, we didn't give the average non-affiliated fan in Texas a reason to root for us either.
It got so bad that we became actually proud that we didn't have many fans that weren't indoctrinated Aggies, even if that meant our stadium was a rundown dump that was partially empty and smelled like batshit.
The whole SEC deal was basically trading their brand (that they built with actual success) for our Texas eyeballs and recruits (aka our birthright that we have squandered for a 100 years). The name of the game since 2011 is using their brand (that again, they earned the goodwill of not us) as a selling point for the average recruit and fan to put on the maroon and white. In return the SEC gets a network that rakes in money faster than otherwise. Basically they "sold out" to us, and we to them.
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I just want to play Texas.
Sounds like you have selfish reasons then. I am trying to think big picture, so is the SEC if Chip is right.
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Football fans across Texas would love it, and to me that's all that really matters.
What do we owe them and why? I want what is best for Aggies, not some general "Texas college football fan" who probably wore burnt orange the last decade and shouted obscene things at me when I was wearing maroon. Honestly I this point I think we owe fellow Aggies, for loyalty, and the SEC, for a liferaft, a decent program that everyone can be proud of. Everyone else can go frick themselves, especially Chip Brown and Texas.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:25 pm to finestfirst79
quote:there is none
How big of a recruiting hit do you think we're getting right now over the (completely unsubstantiated but for some unfathomable reason confirmed by Ark posters) notion that A&M is afraid to play Texas???
quote:I think you are misunderstanding no interest for being scared
completely unsubstantiated but for some unfathomable reason confirmed by Ark posters
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 11:27 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:34 pm to WestCoastAg
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I think you are misunderstanding no interest for being scared
I think I wasn't talking about you. I also think the guy I'm bitching about has flip-flopped on playing the game because he rejects playing the game over wanting to avoid being called a coward (his words). And for one, I don't give a damn what Chip Brown says. I just want the game to resume and to BTHO t.u.
If anybody disagrees, that's fine. Just don't give me a lot of marketing crap over why it's a bad idea to play.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:36 pm to finestfirst79
if you don't want to here why its a stupid move, then don't tell me why you want to play it for purely nostalgic reasons
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:47 pm to cardboardboxer
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Our brand was crap in the Big 12. It simply was. We not only gave talented 18 year old football players no reason to prefer our football brand over Texas, we didn't give the average non-affiliated fan in Texas a reason to root for us either.
This is horseshite. When did you graduate? Had to be after 2000, right? Believe it or not, A&M had successful football seasons before that.
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Sounds like you have selfish reasons then. I am trying to think big picture, so is the SEC if Chip is right.
WTF? How the hell is it selfish for me to want A&M to play Texas? And please look it up and tell me the last time a Chip Brown post about A&M was accurate. (This may take you a very long while.)
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What do we owe them and why?...
This feels weird to say this coming from a transplant to Miss., but... we owe them everything, as far as football is concerned. I don't care how many burnt orange ruffians gave you swirlies in junior high, the plain fact is ALL football programs in Texas owe their success to the fans in Texas.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:53 pm to WestCoastAg
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if you don't want to here why its a stupid move, ...
I'd love to here it (sorry, I couldn't help myself). Please tell me why it's a stupid move. But if it's a bunch of marketing crap, please don't waste your time.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:54 pm to finestfirst79
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You're apparently concerned about recruiting
YES I frickING CARE ABOUT RECRUITING!!
Do you not WATCH the games? Have you not SEEN the amazing flashes of talent coming from megarookies Garrett and Speedy?
Guess what- we don't have EITHER of those guys, or a lot of our other talents, if we are still locked in the old system where we are in the same conference as Texas and they beat us two-thirds of the time.
EVERYONE SHOULD CARE ABOUT RECRUITING!!!
It is the difference between a program that feels proud because they have good kids that graduate and did things the right way, and a program that feels proud because they hoist real fricking hardware that is nationally known.
The reality is that us NAILING our yells does very little to determine the outcome of games. Neither does how tough we look, or how loud we whoop, or how many people we fit in a stadium. Sure it can disrupt a play or two, but a Myles Garrett disrupts every play.
For as much as we called Mack Brown a snake oil salesman I would take his record in a heartbeat. We basically don't have a national title during the modern era where talent matters, and there is a reason for that.
Right now we have the momentum and it is hanging by a thread. Some lie from a try-hard bozo in Austin isn't going to cut that thread, but a loss to Texas would.
So instead of freaking playing with scissors lets go beat the living crap out of some B1G team and turn our thread into a rope without the risk of it being cut.
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Does anybody here actually believe the UT football program is going to dry up and blow away if A&M achieves success?
No, of course not. That is ridiculous. Texas controls its own destiny.
With that said, if we could make the right moves and win a national title right around the same time the OU program flops with its post Stoops hire then we could potentially make that program dry up and blow away.
I mean, those assholes have been stealing our place as the second best team "in Texas" for years. They get to be the FSU of Texas instead of us, all because of a history that they cheated to get way back when. I would LOVE to bury those Sooner assholes and permanently put us in a position to get a shot at Texas talent before them. Heck, we play our cards right and maybe they even become a modern day Minnesota.
You get down to it and you see that OU was the one responsible for our shite decade, not Texas. We beat Texas enough to counteract them. It was OU that gave us 77-0. It was OU that gave us Mr. A&M. It was OU that dirty recruited the shite out of us and stole all the talent from Texas we should have gotten. Think if AP would have been an Aggie.
We already beat the shite out of OU in a bowl so another round of that won't help. What will is a progression of smart moves to increase the brand and exposure gap between us and them in the state, and make it so by the time the GOR period ends they are a fraction of what they are today. THAT is what a Littlefinger would do.
But many Aggies don't think of that, never really think of how it has been OU that has really been fricking us in this big board game called college football for a while. Many Aggies don't think about any of this big picture stuff, and it's that kind of shite that has buried us for decades. It is all this binary thought of "Play Texas and Beat Them and It Solves Everything Durrrrr" that has given us incredible tunnel vision and kept us at a fraction of our potential.
I have no ill will towards you, and I get where you are coming from. I will take all the frick yous you want to throw and have no hard feelings. You will always have a beer at my tailgate for what you have taught me.
But this is 2014 and branding fricking matters. You are simply wrong if you think otherwise. frick me, frick this frick that, it won't change anything and it won't turn back the clock. Perception is reality in 2014, which means if you don't cultivate your perception someone else will. In our case someone else did for a century and we became the blond/polak/etc. joke. Now Sumlin/the SEC is doing it and we are top 10 on the 247 composite list. It is not a coincidence, so in the SEC I trust.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 11:57 pm to finestfirst79
well I could start with beating them does nothing for us and losing to them only hurts us. then I can go into it only lets them leach off our own national exposure, and then I can get into a bunch of the hated marketing crap. and this goes for any school in the big 12
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 11/22/14 at 12:04 am to finestfirst79
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Believe it or not, A&M had successful football seasons before that.
Thats right, how could I forget. The cute and quaint idea Old Army has that the Jackie and RC years were what EVERYONE would consider "successful" football even though it lead to ZERO top five finishes and ZERO pieces of national hardware.
Our national hardware, aka the ONLY shite that matters in this game, all comes from an era that we now swear we were disadvantaged during. During the modern era of college football prior to Sumlin we have been AT BEST at good but not great REGIONAL team that quite frankly thought too highly of our ourselves.
Prior to 2012 our last top 5 finish was 1956. Sorry finest, that is not the level of success the number two program in the state of Texas should have been having. We have been underachievers for decades, and its due to our mentality.
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How the hell is it selfish for me to want A&M to play Texas?
Ok fine, tell me a good reason to play them in what will be a shitty bowl. Unless your argument doesn't legitimately use words like "brand" and "exposure," than don't bother.
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we owe them everything, as far as football is concerned. I don't care how many burnt orange ruffians gave you swirlies in junior high, the plain fact is ALL football programs in Texas owe their success to the fans in Texas.
If this is really true then we never should have left the Big 12. We should have stayed on the LHN plantation and given up our chance at something better so that the average college football fan in Texas can see the games they are used to seeing.
Tech fans have this saying I like- that our SEC move was good for us but bad for the state. They might not be wrong if you think about it.
Posted on 11/22/14 at 12:16 am to cardboardboxer
What this really long and circuitous post misses is that Texas is by far the weakest opponent of the options on offer in the OP. We're 59th in overall FEI, Texas is 66th. Clemson is 23rd and Minnesota is 39th. If you think we'd walk all over Minnesota in a bowl because SEC > B1G then perhaps I should remind you that Indiana has transitive scoreboard on us
Posted on 11/22/14 at 12:20 am to cardboardboxer
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But we play them and lose and we flush all the JFF and SEC move momentum down the toilet. It would be the first nail in Sumlin's coffin, which means a very unfun few lame duck years and a bigger hole that the next coach maybe can crawl out of. That is a lot of risk.
If a loss to Texas kills Sumlin's career, then so be it. One thing is trying to protect a coach that you know is good, and another is protecting a coach that you hope is good. Big difference.
And its nothing against Sumlin. I like him and hope he is our guy, but we cant protect him from possible loses just because we like him. If that was the case, then lets not accept a bowl invitation and stay home this season.
And lame duck seasons after Sumlin? Didn't we all think the same after Sherman was fired?
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You and the Old Army Ags have been too ready to always jump in the well, to take that risk. And what do we have to show for all those risks?
Well, gee. I don't know....how about that risk we took a while back? You know......joining the SEC and all.
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They have always played the role of Needles in Back To The Future 3, calling us chicken and then wrecking our program when we race to prove our bravery.
SEE NEXT RESPONSE BELOW
???
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Doing things because others have impressed on you that they deserve it, or that you are a coward to avoid it, is weak minded IMHO. We Aggies have been so proud of our bravery, or willingness to always take that punch we didn't have to take, that we have missed the fact that we should be doing the punching- not them.
Not playing Texas because we may lose what JFF built is exactly what being a coward is
[Insert Jax fan gif here]
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Old Army sells themselves on the lie that doing things the hard way, "the right way," will bring us the reward in the end. Well it hasn't in a hundred years, and it won't in the next hundred if left alone.
Well, what's your way? Join the ACC and call it a day?
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Thanks to Old Army we have taken enough dumb and uncalculated bravado risk that now we don't even control our own brand anymore- the SEC does. If the reality that we failed so completely on our own because of our pig headed ego that we HAD TO pay a bigger bully with eyeballs to fight our fight for us doesn't show you the light then I don't know what will. We are have to hide behind the SEC skirt because Old Army made a bunch of assumptions that were wrong or only applied in their world. No matter how great of a program we become one day, we will always know we couldn't do it on our own. On our own we are bullheaded failures.
You are confusing Old Army for the good ol' boy network and you're not alone in hating those guys. They are the ones responsible for lame duck hires and irresponsible contract extensions at the slightest hint of success. Like Harvey Updyke, they just have too much Aggie in them. Its not that they are trying to hurt A&M, its just that they make irresponsible choices because they easily get too excited
Old Army ? Good Ol' Boy Network.
Look, I like to take swings at finestfirst as much as the next guy. But you gotta admit that the old senile AARP fart has a point (
). Quit being scared of playing Texas. We really can't lose anything that we already lost to 0-59 Alabama. At this point, I'd argue for the point that we need to redeem ourselves. And what better way than to beat Texas? JUST PLAY TEXAS DAMN IT. LET'S LINK OUR ARMS AND LEGS AND SAW VARSITY'S HORNS OFF ONCE AGAIN!
Posted on 11/22/14 at 12:20 am to Iosh
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If you think we'd walk all over Minnesota in a bowl because SEC > B1G then perhaps I should remind you that Indiana has transitive scoreboard on us
Sure, but even in the worst case scenario we don't compete with Minnesota for a single recruit. Maybe at best TCU would get a small bump out of our loss.
I am not saying we would lose, but it is always smart to look at all potential outcomes.
Posted on 11/22/14 at 12:36 am to cardboardboxer
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YES I frickING CARE ABOUT RECRUITING!!
Good for you. How does playing Texas hurt A&M recruiting? You didn't answer my earlier question about when you graduated, but it's pretty obvious by your rant and in particular
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...in the same conference as Texas and they beat us two-thirds of the time.
That's your experience. Latter days of RC + Fran + Sherman. Look at the previous decade and the decade before that, when, curiously, we played Texas. Conference affiliation and whether or not we played Texas had nothing to do with our recruiting. The conference does NOW, certainly, as recruits want to play for an SEC school that will guide them to the NFL. That's fine. That also has absolutely nothing to do with whether A&M should play Texas or not.
I need a lot more bourbon to read and digest the rest, sorry. But I do admire
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I will take all the frick yous you want to throw and have no hard feelings.
. Honestly, I get all the stuff about OU and FWIW I agree 100% - those bastards need to be taken down and the state needs to hang on to more Texas players. But my solution would never be to not play OU ever - it would be to play them as often as possible and beat their arse. Same with Texas. If A&M is going to be great then playing Texas shouldn't concern anybody for any reason that I can fathom. If A&M is going to be not-so-great then playing Texas isn't going to make us worse - the recruits would go there, anyway.
Posted on 11/22/14 at 12:42 am to WestCoastAg
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well I could start with beating them does nothing for us
Well of course it does. Sorry, but this is just silly. Hell, we're in a recruiting battle for several defensive players right now. Do you not think beating Texas would help?
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then I can go into it only lets them leach off our own national exposure
AKA Johnny Manziel. He's gone. Any new exposure we get will come from beating Bama and LSU and Auburn. Beating Texas I don't see as an insurmountable problem if A&M can take care of those 3.
Posted on 11/22/14 at 12:47 am to greenbastard
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If a loss to Texas kills Sumlin's career, then so be it.
You say that so callously, but I am personally sick of five year "rebuilding periods."
At this point its not even about protecting Sumlin as much as protecting Sumlin's recruiting. Sumlin's job will be determined on the field, if he flops he is gone. What this is about is making sure if he does flop the next guy gets a roster with two or three top five classes. I am sick of empty cupboards, and we don't have the margin or time to risk that happening. The Big 12 GOR clock is ticking, we have from now until the end of that to get a national title if we want our SEC move to be successful long-term.
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Didn't we all think the same after Sherman was fired?
Actually I have been on the Sumlin bandwagon since like mid-2010. I knew we needed a gimmick.
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Well, gee. I don't know....how about that risk we took a while back? You know......joining the SEC and all.
But is being in the SEC reward in and of itself? I personally don't thinks so, considering their reasons for adding us that would be like a trust fund kid thinking he was the shite because of daddy's money.
Plus the SEC move obviously doesn't count because it was done by people who are outsiders- a Galveston Aggie and a Mississippi State grad. In fact everything since then is an example of the kind of success we can have when an Aggie isn't at the wheel.
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Well, what's your way? Join the ACC and call it a day?
No one said the SEC would be easy, but quite honestly it is easier than our time in the Big 12. The SEC is like a NASCAR track, but thanks to the upgrade in talent at least we are driving a NASCAR in the race. In the Big 12 it was like being on a freeway on a bicycle.
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You are confusing Old Army for the good ol' boy network and you're not alone in hating those guys.
Thank you for the correction, duly noted.
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We really can't lose anything that we already lost to 0-59 Alabama. At this point, I'd argue for the point that we need to redeem ourselves.
God this is such crap, and I keep hearing it over and over from Aggies friends.
Guess what- 59-0 wasn't really that bad. Sure it hurt us personally real bad and gave us PTSD from 77-0, but in all truth such a blowout couldn't happen at a better time or a better way than it happened:
-It was a blowout to who is now the top ranked team in the county, and a team that is maybe the best in the AP era
-It was a blowout to a team who, unlike Texas, we were already getting spanked in head to head recruiting against. Bama at best will cherry pick anyway and not pillage OU-style
-It was a blowout that didn't lead to a single decommit, or even the team giving up as proven by the Auburn win.
Simply put if we end up with a top 5 recruiting class 59-0 and the entire fricking season was basically meaningless. All that matters is February, and the future determines that not the past.
The truth is that Aggies and AGGIES ALONE feel that we need to atone for that loss, that Sumlin needs a way to wipe that taste out of our mouths. For all the people that actually matter longterm, the recruits and t-shirt fans, they didn't watch that game anyway because we were out of the top of the rankings thanks to prior losses. The only people who really watched in the state was us and those jerks in Austin.
For once in our program's history we had the buffer to take a loss like that. What that means is we DON'T have the space on our dance card for a loss to Texas, just like I was convinced of earlier in the thread.
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