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re: Top 20 College jobs for recruiting by 247s JC Shurburtt
Posted on 12/14/13 at 11:44 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
Posted on 12/14/13 at 11:44 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
Personally I don't think North Carolina should be on the list but that's just my opinion
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Posted on 12/15/13 at 1:26 am to TRUERockyTop
It's not a terrible list, but it's placing way too much importance on local talent in an era where top programs can recruit nationally, or, at the very least, regionally. It's silly to knock Georgia for not being able to hold onto local talent without sufficiently rewarding programs like ND and Bama for being able to steal local talent from other places. If UGA is being downgraded because other teams are raiding them, then the teams that are raiding them (Bama and Auburn, for instance) should be bumped higher. Both are too low, and Texas is too high simply because they get a slew of recruits but they also miss on a slew of them because teams like TAMU, Oklahoma, and even LSU steal them away. Recruiting's no longer as simple as the guy is making it here.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:44 am to randomways
Pretty solid top 13, except for Aggie at 11. Makes little sense to then put Oklahoma at 16 when 60 years of history consistently say otherwise. North Carolina and Stanford are dubious inclusions, imo.
My list:
1. USC
2. Texas
3. Ohio State
4. LSU
5. Florida
6. Notre Dame
7. Bama
8. Georgia
9. Michigan
10. Miami
11. Penn State
12. Florida State
13. Oklahoma
14. Auburn
15. Aggie
16. Tenn
17. UCLA
18. Oregon
19. Nebraska
20. Clemson
My list:
1. USC
2. Texas
3. Ohio State
4. LSU
5. Florida
6. Notre Dame
7. Bama
8. Georgia
9. Michigan
10. Miami
11. Penn State
12. Florida State
13. Oklahoma
14. Auburn
15. Aggie
16. Tenn
17. UCLA
18. Oregon
19. Nebraska
20. Clemson
Posted on 12/15/13 at 1:11 pm to todospm
Your list is fricking terriable.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:06 pm to AUCE05
Ok. Why?
Let's start at 1.
Carroll @ USC showed what's possible when you pluck 15 of the top 20 from California every year and pair them with 10 other hand-chosen top 200 players from around the country. The probation and general suckitude of Lane has made everyone forget how dominant USC can be when firing on all cylinders.
Or how about the end, with the addition of Nebraska and Clemson? Nebraska is one of college football's most storied programs, with tremendous in-built fan support and facilities and one home-run hire from turning things around. Who knows, maybe Bo figures things out and gets the ball rolling soon. Nebraska's in-state recruiting woes aren't any different than Oregon's, who's also Oregon State next door in Corvallis. And yet Oregon's a top 15 recruiting set-up while Nebraska's not mentioned? Go check Oregon's recruiting rankings over the past decade, the best of their program's existence: Doesn't even average out to top 14.
Clemson has been a consistently talented team for decades, has rabid fan support, good facilities, history, etc. In the heart of the South, in general, and close to Atlanta and South Carolina talent in particular, regularly pulls top 15 recruiting classes, etc.
The list is too narrowly focused on the contemporary landscape.
For example, Bama is a better set up than Georgia because of history, fanbase passion, etc. Say, hypothetically, you took two super recruiters: Saban, Carroll, Sumlin, Meyer, etc. Put one at Bama and the other at Georgia and let them recruit for 5 years and then flip them and let another 5 years pass. The Bama teams will consistently pull higher recruits.
Another change: Miami for decades has taken the best talent from the most talent-rich part of America and deserves to be higher than FSU, despite the recent NCAA problems and FSU's resurgence. Another: even though they've both been stumbling for 5+ years(except for ND's unlikely 2012 season), Michigan and Notre Dame still sign extremely high-ranked OOS recruits all the time. I think Michigan has four 4 and 5 star OOS recruits already signed in the 2015 class, not to mention a top 5 recruit this year. These places truly recruit for themselves and have slightly undervalued, too.
Stanford is a laughable addition and much more likely in the medium term to slip into mediocrity than sustain itself as a top 25 regular. North Carolina is bizarre over South Carolina, Clemson, Va Tech -- all schools in the same region but with real passion for football. It's odd that the basketball legacy is cited as a huge bonus differentiating UNC, when imo it leaves the FB players to second fiddle status. Meanwhile, at Clemson, FB players rule the roost.
Let's start at 1.
Carroll @ USC showed what's possible when you pluck 15 of the top 20 from California every year and pair them with 10 other hand-chosen top 200 players from around the country. The probation and general suckitude of Lane has made everyone forget how dominant USC can be when firing on all cylinders.
Or how about the end, with the addition of Nebraska and Clemson? Nebraska is one of college football's most storied programs, with tremendous in-built fan support and facilities and one home-run hire from turning things around. Who knows, maybe Bo figures things out and gets the ball rolling soon. Nebraska's in-state recruiting woes aren't any different than Oregon's, who's also Oregon State next door in Corvallis. And yet Oregon's a top 15 recruiting set-up while Nebraska's not mentioned? Go check Oregon's recruiting rankings over the past decade, the best of their program's existence: Doesn't even average out to top 14.
Clemson has been a consistently talented team for decades, has rabid fan support, good facilities, history, etc. In the heart of the South, in general, and close to Atlanta and South Carolina talent in particular, regularly pulls top 15 recruiting classes, etc.
The list is too narrowly focused on the contemporary landscape.
For example, Bama is a better set up than Georgia because of history, fanbase passion, etc. Say, hypothetically, you took two super recruiters: Saban, Carroll, Sumlin, Meyer, etc. Put one at Bama and the other at Georgia and let them recruit for 5 years and then flip them and let another 5 years pass. The Bama teams will consistently pull higher recruits.
Another change: Miami for decades has taken the best talent from the most talent-rich part of America and deserves to be higher than FSU, despite the recent NCAA problems and FSU's resurgence. Another: even though they've both been stumbling for 5+ years(except for ND's unlikely 2012 season), Michigan and Notre Dame still sign extremely high-ranked OOS recruits all the time. I think Michigan has four 4 and 5 star OOS recruits already signed in the 2015 class, not to mention a top 5 recruit this year. These places truly recruit for themselves and have slightly undervalued, too.
Stanford is a laughable addition and much more likely in the medium term to slip into mediocrity than sustain itself as a top 25 regular. North Carolina is bizarre over South Carolina, Clemson, Va Tech -- all schools in the same region but with real passion for football. It's odd that the basketball legacy is cited as a huge bonus differentiating UNC, when imo it leaves the FB players to second fiddle status. Meanwhile, at Clemson, FB players rule the roost.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:15 pm to VerlanderBEAST
quote:
LSU Georgia and Florida are too high.
UGA is top 5 best recruiting gigs, and you're an idiot to thing otherwise. If they just lockup their state each year they can cherry pick from any of the incredible states right next to them (Florida, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina). They're in the heart of high school football. Just because Richt hasn't been able to take advantage of it doesn't mean it isn't as fertile as any region in the nation.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:16 pm to Brageous
quote:
Agreed. Alabama and especially Tennessee should be moved up. 12 years ago, Tennessee would be perceived as top 5 IMO.
Tennessee doesn't have the instate or regional talent base to warrant being much higher. People underestimate how difficult it is to recruit at Tennessee. Sure their budget is incredible, but they're not exactly in the heart of the deep south where most of the elite talent resides. They shouldn't be any higher.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:18 pm to todospm
quote:
Clemson has been a consistently talented team for decades, has rabid fan support, good facilities, history, etc. In the heart of the South, in general, and close to Atlanta and South Carolina talent in particular, regularly pulls top 15 recruiting classes, etc.
Clemson absolutely should be in the top 20. Lulz at putting someone like North Carolina on the list and not Clemson. Clemson has upgraded its facilities to the point where it can compete with anyone outside of Bama and Oregon, and it has the stadium/fanbase that all kids love plus its proximity to Georgia, Florida and North Carolina.
When Clemson is rolling (see the Danny Ford days), they recruit as well as anyone in the country. Back in the day we were narrowly missing on the Hershel Walker and Tommie Fraziers of the world.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:19 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
UGA is top 5 best recruiting gigs, and you're an idiot to thing otherwise. If they just lockup their state each year they can cherry pick from any of the incredible states right next to them (Florida, Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina). They're in the heart of high school football. Just because Richt hasn't been able to take advantage of it doesn't mean it isn't as fertile as any region in the nation.
We don't even have to lock it up. If we get 4-5 of the top 10, 15-18 of the top 40 or so, and then supplement with some of the best players from Florida and the Carolinas, we'll be in great shape.
Locking up the state of Georgia in recruiting is impossible.
This post was edited on 12/15/13 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 12/15/13 at 5:40 pm to Crowknowsbest
I agree that UGA, on paper, should be a top-5 gig. But the reality is that it isn't.
Sure, Ga Tech mostly sucks. But regionally UGA is pretty much at the epicenter of Bama, Auburn, USC, Clemson, Tenn, Florida, FSU, etc. They're besieged.
Plus, with Atlanta being the SE's capital, the state's main population base comes from a city that doesn't feel overwhelmingly 'Georgia' in the same way Chicago feels more like a Midwestern city than an 'Illinois' city. Not to mention all the transplants who have little loyalty to UGA.
Sure, Ga Tech mostly sucks. But regionally UGA is pretty much at the epicenter of Bama, Auburn, USC, Clemson, Tenn, Florida, FSU, etc. They're besieged.
Plus, with Atlanta being the SE's capital, the state's main population base comes from a city that doesn't feel overwhelmingly 'Georgia' in the same way Chicago feels more like a Midwestern city than an 'Illinois' city. Not to mention all the transplants who have little loyalty to UGA.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 8:03 pm to todospm
I would say that what makes UGA a great recruiting gig is that there is so much elite talent that we can maintain an elite talent level even with all those factors working against it.
Generally, opposing fans tend to focus more on the guys UGA doesn't get than the guys we do. We can get "raided" and still have a top 5-10 class
Generally, opposing fans tend to focus more on the guys UGA doesn't get than the guys we do. We can get "raided" and still have a top 5-10 class
Posted on 12/15/13 at 9:12 pm to TRUERockyTop
I've known JC for years, he's actually a bit of a Gamecock fan. His list is not bad, but it could use some tweaking.
Posted on 12/15/13 at 10:40 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
ACtually, I sort of agree. While the state of Georgia has a lot of talent, UF and FSU are much closer than AThens in the southern quarter where a lot of the best non-ATL big high school programs are based. In the west, AU is far closer to the Columbus metro region. UT is on the doorstep in the north, and ATL is simply about as transient a city as possible with very little if any instate loyalty ties. ALl these schools have very large alumni and support bases in these areas as well.
Add in that the administration doesn't want to oversign, has a tendency to block commits from being admitting if they don't feel they're moral enough or they question their standardized test scores, and they don't feel the need to fund a massive recruitment department.
So, in effect, UGA gets to scout a huge number of instate talents with a relatively limited staff with very few having any great loyalty to a state institution that has become the University of Atlanta more than the rest of Georgia, all the while having to deal with the hurt feelings from these same kids who think that the moment the UGA staff offers another kid before them, they are being disrespected.
Add in that the administration doesn't want to oversign, has a tendency to block commits from being admitting if they don't feel they're moral enough or they question their standardized test scores, and they don't feel the need to fund a massive recruitment department.
So, in effect, UGA gets to scout a huge number of instate talents with a relatively limited staff with very few having any great loyalty to a state institution that has become the University of Atlanta more than the rest of Georgia, all the while having to deal with the hurt feelings from these same kids who think that the moment the UGA staff offers another kid before them, they are being disrespected.
Posted on 12/16/13 at 2:00 pm to SoGaFan
quote:
So, in effect, UGA gets to scout a huge number of instate talents with a relatively limited staff with very few having any great loyalty to a state institution that has become the University of Atlanta more than the rest of Georgia, all the while having to deal with the hurt feelings from these same kids who think that the moment the UGA staff offers another kid before them, they are being disrespected.
Reads like a Memphis State problem ... Memphis State being the hub of the midsouth has had coaches complain about a similar problem while Arkansas, Ole Miss, Bama, Tennessee, et al comes in and butt raps them each year.
Posted on 12/16/13 at 2:37 pm to BASED
quote:
a baboon could win 9 games a year at LSU
And a baboon does.
Posted on 12/16/13 at 2:56 pm to Foolish cock
There's no way in hell that Ohio State has more of an advantage when it comes to recruiting than Florida, USC, Alabama, LSU, UGA, etc...
Simply put, this list is complete crap.
Simply put, this list is complete crap.
Posted on 12/16/13 at 3:26 pm to TRUERockyTop
I think Alabama's in- state pool is underrated even when considering Auburn will get a share.
Posted on 12/16/13 at 3:27 pm to CapstoneGrad06
Having the the Heisman winner and the runner up come from Alabama this year proves your point!
Posted on 12/17/13 at 4:30 am to NCRebel252
quote:
There's no way in hell that Ohio State has more of an advantage when it comes to recruiting than Florida, USC, Alabama, LSU, UGA, etc...
I agree about USC. It's the premier West Coast college football program and located in the most populous state, specifically in a huge metropolis which has football heritage and is the world's entertainment capital.
But the others?
Georgia has already been covered.
Florida is competing with Florida State and Miami, not to mention other SEC teams, Lousville, Clemson, and other national programs that pull a lot of guys from Florida.
Bama fans have passion but little-brother AUburn has the potential to wrest away control every once in a while. Admittedly, it would take sustained incompentence for LSU to recruit poorly. Or any of these teams, really. But in terms of having unparalleled access to great football players, Ohio State has a very sweet deal. Ohio has for decades, through the present day, maintained a top-5 status on NFL rosters. Guys like Luke Kuechly, Roethlisberger, James Harrison, Leveon Bell, etc never come close to getting Ohio State offers. And, outside of Toldedo and the Catholic schools in Cinci (the NE Ohio ones have been mostly been brought into the fold), the state is firmly Ohio State to a remarkable degree.
Tressel eventually made headway in Cinci (and Michigan and Pennslyvania) and Meyer is doing the same by signing guys like Sam Hubbard, a 6'6 safety recruit who was set to play lacrosse at Notre Dame. Alongside the Irish, only Michigan has challenged Ohio State for top talent, apart from irregulars like Trey Depriest and Jordan Hicks. Ohio State has mostly won those battles, after Tressel took momentum from Michigan, who'd been signing recruits like Charles Woodson and Desmond Howard in the 90's (or even Paterno with Kijana Carter).
Regardless, Cooper cast a wide net and signed as many top 5 classes as anyone during the 90's and produced a ton of NFL talent. Tressel certainly maintained that (14 guys drafted in '04, umpteen first round picks). Now, after the Tat 5 and its accompanying dip in recruiting/nfl output, Meyer is reasserting Ohio State as a presence.
A few days ago, 2017 QB Danny clark committed on the spot when offered and yesterday 5-star McMillain committed, bringing Ohio State's average star level to #2, depending on the recruiting service. Over the past 20 years, I'd guess Ohio State's average star ranking has been top-5 at least 12 times, probably about 15. Cooper and Tressel each had two or three mediocre years, plus the year 'lost' to the Tat 5 scandal (even though it contained Braxton Miller and Ryan Shazier). That's it.
Egregious oversigning notwithstanding, no school on your list besides USC has consistently competed on a recruit-by-recruit basis. They're all top 8, though.
Posted on 12/17/13 at 9:57 am to TRUERockyTop
quote:
JC Shurburtt
i'm on this board too damn much....i read this as JC Butthurt
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