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re: Clemson is the first Rivals-era National Champion without a Top 5 Class
Posted on 1/10/17 at 8:45 pm to ChopBlockOclock
Posted on 1/10/17 at 8:45 pm to ChopBlockOclock
quote:
Ask Bert and Butch Jones and Freeze what relying on talent gets you
Bert doesn't belong in that statement. Those guys have recruited much better than him. 
1
Posted on 1/10/17 at 9:54 pm to rockiee
Lol ok point taken. I actually have no clue on Ark recruiting. Wasnt meant as a dig btw. Dont want to offend. Just calling it as I see it from the perspective of a fan in another conference. Cheers!
Posted on 1/10/17 at 10:40 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Build a solid program and get some real difference makers and David can fell Goliath, I guess.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:58 am to ChopBlockOclock
quote:
Lol ok point taken. I actually have no clue on Ark recruiting. Wasnt meant as a dig btw.
I didn't really take it has a dig.
He has been average in terms of recruiting for Arkansas. Arkansas is a fairly tough place to recruit at compared to some of the other SEC schools, it is probably unrealistic to expect much better atm.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 2:19 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
quote:
It was a good year for the ACC
Largely this. Between quality of QB, quality HCs with experience, and matchups, everything worked out pretty well this year for the ACC.
If I look at the matchups against the spread of teams not named Bama/Clemson (both favored in initial contest, Clemson clearly came out ahead in the end) a good way to look at it is how many won matchups were initially favored by a field goal or less (generally can be used to consider a less obvious expected outcome).
ACC:
FSU W (Michigan) (+7)
Miami W ( WVU) (-3)
Wake W (Temple) * (+13)
Boston College W (Maryland) * (+1)
SEC:
UGA W (-1)
UT W (-3)
UF W (-2.5)
Gotta give ACC the best "quality" win there for the FSU victory over Michigan (in the CFP mix) and a bigger "upset" with Wake over Temple a top 25 team going into the bowl (though arguably that line should have been adjusted by more given Temple's coach leaving). Otherwise, fairly similar matchup makeup for these games.
If you expand to 3.5 -7 point lines, it looks a little different:
Wins:
ACC
Ga Tech W (Kentucky) (-3.5)
Virginia Tech W (-7)
NC St W (-4.5)
SEC
LSU W (-3.5)
Losses:
ACC
Pitt L (-5.5)
UNC L (+3.5)
Louisville L (+3.5)
SEC
Vandy L (+4.5)
aTm L (-2)
Arky L (+7)
UK L (+3.5)
Auburn L (+3.5)
The interesting question to me will be are they able to follow up this success. This was one of the worst years for the SEC in terms of QB experience returning, and coaching experience (lots of turnover in the last 2-3 seasons). Clemson has huge losses at QB/WR/DEF this year (10-11 expected to be drafted). Similarly, FSU will have a good bit leaving to the draft (6-7 expected to get drafted) though they have recruited quite well and should "reload" more easily. With those 2 clearly leading the pack in the ACC and Louisville probably sitting in a reasonably close 3rd it will be interesting to see if this is sustainable.
Unrelated, but did anyone else see that Michigan has a graduation/draft attrition at 19 right now? All but 2 of them are expected to get drafted or sign UDFA contracts as well. Seems like a lot.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:17 pm to fibonaccisquared
Problem I see isnt with Clem/FSU/Louisville who were the top 3...I guess. You might switch Miami with Louisville at the end of the season. The issue is the 4-8 teams. Programs next year with new QBs are Clem, UNC, Miami, GT and Pitt. All highly talented individuals. FSU and Louisville will be strong. Clemsons D might carry them.
I wouldnt count on another 9-3 bowl record. Thats extremely good. I do think the Big 10 will be stronger. ACC still has the best coaches of any conference but their teams are replacing a lot at key positions.
I wouldnt count on another 9-3 bowl record. Thats extremely good. I do think the Big 10 will be stronger. ACC still has the best coaches of any conference but their teams are replacing a lot at key positions.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 10:00 pm to footballtimeintn
quote:
They have benefited from playing in the ACC. Basically its them and Florida State in that conference. No one else consistently recruits Top 15 classes. Miami maybe
Per Rivals, Clemson finished #4 in 2015, BTW.
ACC Top Fifteen Recruiting Classes since 2011, per Rivals
2016 - Florida State (2), Clemson (6)
2015 - Florida State (3), Clemson (4)
2014 - Florida State (4), Miami (12), Clemson (13)
2013 - Florida State (10), Clemson (14)
2012 - Florida State (6), Miami (9), Clemson (14)
2011 - Florida State (2), Clemson (8)
It's not like Clemson is working with a talent deficit. They've finished in the top ten three of the past six recruiting cycles, and in the top fifteen in all six, dawg.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 6:20 am to Tornado Alley
Clemson is similar recruiting to UGA but UGAs problem is simply not recruiting classes in the top 3. Big difference in top 10 and top 3 in correlation to championships. Need just a little more talent to make up for coaching.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 9:33 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Rivals-era" = since Rivals started posting rankings online in 2002.
2013 Class - 15
2014 Class - 17
2015 Class - 9
2016 Class - 11
WHAT?This cannot be possible!
I thought you HAD to have top 5 classes or there's absolutely NO WAY you can compete especially in the SEC.
Wow,so coaching does make a difference...who da thunk that?
Posted on 1/13/17 at 4:43 am to CGSC Lobotomy
Just goes to show what a great qb can do for a team without as much talent as others they play. The reverse has been lsu problem
Posted on 1/13/17 at 7:07 am to CGSC Lobotomy
You lost me at Rivals.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 8:56 am to tylerdurden24
quote:
it blows my mind that Venables isn't a HC somewhere.
His son is a 2018 Clemson commit. Guessing BV stays put for a while.
Posted on 1/13/17 at 3:06 pm to Tornado Alley
quote:
Per Rivals, Clemson finished #4 in 2015, BTW.
You can pretty much disregard anything non-Rivals from 2002-2010 and anything non-247sports from 2011-2017.
Posted on 1/15/17 at 4:37 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
Clemson has had talent the entire time they just didn't have the QB to take them over the top. You make it sound as if they were playing with the sisters of the poor or something. You don't need a top 5 class to compete in the ACC. Watson was the consensus number 1 qb at his position and top 5 in the state of GA. I don't know why it's that surprising that they won. You need a qb offensive and defensive lineman to win
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