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re: 5* RB Ricky Slade to PSU
Posted on 2/6/17 at 11:02 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 2/6/17 at 11:02 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
So in one year he's supposed to fix every recruit deficiency we had including, but not limited to: Quarterback, running back, the entire offensive line and all but one wide receiver?
I thought that was the narrative on why Kirby can't or won't be successful at UGA? He was supposed to walk in and make up for a non-functional offensive line, a freshman QB, and a receiving corps who clearly have family history in the masonry business as their hands are rather brick like.
It was a nice turnaround to land a top 10 class, but TJ also has some valid complaints re: the class that you did land. At an 88.82 avg rating per player, that falls much closer to South Carolina (87.01) than it does to Bama (93.61), or Georgia (92.71) for that matter. It's a little lacking in top end talent, and heavily laden with 3* guys. It's certainly possible that Mac and Co have done a great job with talent evaluation but I don't think UF should be in the business of taking in many guys ranked outside of the top 500 nationally, let alone them making up more than 25% of the incoming recruiting class. All in all, I'm happy if he stays there. If Kirby can't get it done in the East and is still consistently out talenting the division in recruiting, it will be pretty evident he's not the guy. Good measuring stick for me.
The "we would have had a higher offensive ranking than USC if we played one more cupcake" is a bit of a broken crutch. First of all, you would have needed roughly an extra 50 yards over your average of 344 for the per game avg to match USC. You managed this against North Texas but not against UMass, the other two cupcakes on your schedule. Even if UF puts up 500 yards in that game, it still puts you behind Vanderbilt... At the end of the day, this is not where an offensive coach should have Florida as a team. You shouldn't be in the same vicinity...
1
Posted on 2/6/17 at 11:47 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Yet you've argued for two pages. I guess it takes one to know one in this case.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 2:38 am to fibonaccisquared
quote:
I thought that was the narrative on why Kirby can't or won't be successful at UGA? He was supposed to walk in and make up for a non-functional offensive line, a freshman QB, and a receiving corps who clearly have family history in the masonry business as their hands are rather brick like.
You had Nick Chubb and an all-star quarterback recruit.
We had Del Rio and the backup quarterback at Purdue.
Georgia also had 2 deep at every offensive-line position when he walked in, McElwain had a backup for one of them.
Isiah Wynn: Junior.
Dyson Sims: Junior.
Brandon Kublanow: Senior.
Greg Pyke: Senior.
Kendall Baker: Sophomore.
In Comparison to the three true freshmen we played on the line the first year.
So yeah, you had a better quarterback, a better line, a better pair of running backs and outside of two freshmen receivers who broke a few records, we haven't had dick.
quote:
It was a nice turnaround to land a top 10 class, but TJ also has some valid complaints re: the class that you did land.
Yeah, a Georgia fan doesn't really get just where we were -- coming off of two years failing and barely getting a bowl and the recruiting class McElwain walked into literally had 9 players by mid-December. It was the worst recruiting class we've had in a while and honestly, we were going to very bad places for our program.
quote:
Offense.
Yep, last head coach didn't recruit anything on that side of the ball.
RS Senior transferred after being destroyed mentally by Muschamp's borderline retarded offensive mindset.
RS Freshman quarterback pisses hot.
Treon Harris is not a quarterback.
Luke Del Rio is a Walkon quarterback.
Appleby is a backup from Purdue.
The other two are Freshmen quarterbacks waiting, as this year was designed to be a rebuilding year where we just happened to have quite a bit of success.
Offensive line has 4 underclassmen starting.
Best receivers are underclassmen.
Best running backs are underclassmen.
You also conveniently left out the part where we had to play in Baton Rouge, thusly losing TWO home games while having to play against Alabama.
UGA recruits their asses off, and saying they haven't won the last few years in recruiting simply isn't intellectually honest -- regardless, we will still beat you on the field.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 8:34 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Really... You can't just accept that is maybe a bit hypocritical, you've got to actually prove my point, solid.
Nick Chubb coming off a violent injury that as we saw wasn't back to 100% and Sony Michel who fractured an arm like 2 months before the season. And a FRESHMAN qb... Talented or not, they make mistakes but our alternative was Greyson Lambert... Long term we'll be better off there, but game managing is easier with upper classmen.
frick off we were 2 deep at every position. We had ONE "real" OT this season and he was a grad transfer from Rhode Island who got destroyed in pass pro most of the season... At the other tackle position, we were starting a pretty talented guard because there literally wasn't a better option. The fact that there are something like 13 scholarship OL and only 6 were in contention to play as bad as it looked at times says more about previous talent evaluation and roster management. That's a 2 deep in name only.
The discussion on your offense in this thread has been relative to year two. At this point that is a positive if he's coaching them well. FWIW, it looks like we'll be starting at least one freshman at the RT spot this year and maybe LT by late season if the juco guy isn't working out there. So we're just delayed on being able to get line continuity.
Florida has been winning in spite of their offense, not because of it. I'd be concerned were I in your shoes. Hell, if we don't see improvement in on field results this year, I'll be concerned. We've got a tougher road schedule this year but Auburn with Stidham might be the biggest challenge. Think ND will be overrated as always and UT just lost a ton of meaningful contributors.
Woe the frick is the plight of the Florida fan...
5* offensive recruits under Muschamp:
QB, OT, RB
4* offensive recruits under Muschamp:
TE, RB, QB, WR, WR, OG, TE, TE, RB, QB, WR, WR, WR, WR, QB, OT, ATH, WR
Or in other words 4 QB, 3 RB, 3 TE, 3 OL, 7 WR, and an ATH (QBish Treon). 21 over 4 years.
If you're gonna critique it, it's similar to the Richt offensive recruiting philosophy... Load up on skill players and figure OL out later... Or never... Just offer this 2/3*...
Mac signed 5 last year and 6 this year, 5 if you account for the fact that Slaton has said he wants to play DT at the next level...
They're averaging the same even if I exclude his initial class with only 3. And honestly, the 4/5* OL recruiting looks about the same as well 2-3 in this class (depending on Slaton), none last year, and one in 15.
Not going to bother responding to the rest of the excuses, it's rationalization of your beliefs that Mac is good for the program rather than substantive argument. The Bama game certainly hurts from a statistical standpoint but at this point would still expect him to have the offense somewhere in the top 75 given his background. If you aren't out Jimmy and Joe-ing them you've gotta out X & O them, and the UF defense isn't going to be able to carry a poor offense for much longer (this might have been the last year? not sure what you guys lost/kept).
Suffice it to say, he isn't having the effect of dramatically improving the offense that Muschamp theoretically destroyed and abandoned but what is happening is a lot of that stellar defensive talent that Muschamp brought in is going away... I'm not going to say TJ and I agree on everything here but his complaints and concerns are valid. If you can't see it, not sure anyone's going to change your mind.
And if we lose to UF the next two seasons, Kirby will be on the next train out I'd imagine, and whoever replaces him will have a stocked cupboard... Don't see it happening given the trends in recruiting but who the eff knows in that game. Some mystical freaking juju in Jax or something.
quote:
You had Nick Chubb and an all-star quarterback recruit. We had Del Rio and the backup quarterback at Purdue.
Nick Chubb coming off a violent injury that as we saw wasn't back to 100% and Sony Michel who fractured an arm like 2 months before the season. And a FRESHMAN qb... Talented or not, they make mistakes but our alternative was Greyson Lambert... Long term we'll be better off there, but game managing is easier with upper classmen.
quote:
Georgia also had 2 deep at every offensive-line position when he walked in, McElwain had a backup for one of them. Isiah Wynn: Junior. Dyson Sims: Junior. Brandon Kublanow: Senior. Greg Pyke: Senior. Kendall Baker: Sophomore.
frick off we were 2 deep at every position. We had ONE "real" OT this season and he was a grad transfer from Rhode Island who got destroyed in pass pro most of the season... At the other tackle position, we were starting a pretty talented guard because there literally wasn't a better option. The fact that there are something like 13 scholarship OL and only 6 were in contention to play as bad as it looked at times says more about previous talent evaluation and roster management. That's a 2 deep in name only.
quote:
In Comparison to the three true freshmen we played on the line the first year.
The discussion on your offense in this thread has been relative to year two. At this point that is a positive if he's coaching them well. FWIW, it looks like we'll be starting at least one freshman at the RT spot this year and maybe LT by late season if the juco guy isn't working out there. So we're just delayed on being able to get line continuity.
Florida has been winning in spite of their offense, not because of it. I'd be concerned were I in your shoes. Hell, if we don't see improvement in on field results this year, I'll be concerned. We've got a tougher road schedule this year but Auburn with Stidham might be the biggest challenge. Think ND will be overrated as always and UT just lost a ton of meaningful contributors.
quote:
Yeah, a Georgia fan doesn't really get just where we were -- coming off of two years failing and barely getting a bowl and the recruiting class McElwain walked into literally had 9 players by mid-December. It was the worst recruiting class we've had in a while and honestly, we were going to very bad places for our program.
Woe the frick is the plight of the Florida fan...
quote:
Yep, last head coach didn't recruit anything on that side of the ball.
5* offensive recruits under Muschamp:
QB, OT, RB
4* offensive recruits under Muschamp:
TE, RB, QB, WR, WR, OG, TE, TE, RB, QB, WR, WR, WR, WR, QB, OT, ATH, WR
Or in other words 4 QB, 3 RB, 3 TE, 3 OL, 7 WR, and an ATH (QBish Treon). 21 over 4 years.
If you're gonna critique it, it's similar to the Richt offensive recruiting philosophy... Load up on skill players and figure OL out later... Or never... Just offer this 2/3*...
Mac signed 5 last year and 6 this year, 5 if you account for the fact that Slaton has said he wants to play DT at the next level...
They're averaging the same even if I exclude his initial class with only 3. And honestly, the 4/5* OL recruiting looks about the same as well 2-3 in this class (depending on Slaton), none last year, and one in 15.
Not going to bother responding to the rest of the excuses, it's rationalization of your beliefs that Mac is good for the program rather than substantive argument. The Bama game certainly hurts from a statistical standpoint but at this point would still expect him to have the offense somewhere in the top 75 given his background. If you aren't out Jimmy and Joe-ing them you've gotta out X & O them, and the UF defense isn't going to be able to carry a poor offense for much longer (this might have been the last year? not sure what you guys lost/kept).
Suffice it to say, he isn't having the effect of dramatically improving the offense that Muschamp theoretically destroyed and abandoned but what is happening is a lot of that stellar defensive talent that Muschamp brought in is going away... I'm not going to say TJ and I agree on everything here but his complaints and concerns are valid. If you can't see it, not sure anyone's going to change your mind.
And if we lose to UF the next two seasons, Kirby will be on the next train out I'd imagine, and whoever replaces him will have a stocked cupboard... Don't see it happening given the trends in recruiting but who the eff knows in that game. Some mystical freaking juju in Jax or something.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 9:31 am to fibonaccisquared
Agreed. We're going into year 3 and we still don't have a QB. Franks still isn't picking it up and Trask is not mentioned at all anymore. That leaves LDR. We just hired an OL coach who has zero experience at the P5 level as a coach. The same goes for DB coach. This isn't a recipe for championships. It shows Mac's bad staff management again. Waiting 3 weeks to hire NTX coach tells me Mac missed on his targets. Especially since Mac hired Bell so fast. Nord and Nuss are still on staff despite terrible coaching and results.
So Mac's staff consists
Of:
Mac- average coach-subpar recruiter C+
Nuss- poor coach-recruiter D
Seider- good coach-great recruiter B+
Dixon-avg coach-Good C+ recruiter
Nord- why is he still here?
F
Davis-completely unknown recruiter- not impressed with his coaching record. F
Rumph- decent recruiter- average coach C-
Shannon-average coach-recruiter C+
Skipper-great recruiter and great RB coach. ? At LB. A
Bell- No real experience coaching at the fbs level. D-
So Mac's staff consists
Of:
Mac- average coach-subpar recruiter C+
Nuss- poor coach-recruiter D
Seider- good coach-great recruiter B+
Dixon-avg coach-Good C+ recruiter
Nord- why is he still here?
F
Davis-completely unknown recruiter- not impressed with his coaching record. F
Rumph- decent recruiter- average coach C-
Shannon-average coach-recruiter C+
Skipper-great recruiter and great RB coach. ? At LB. A
Bell- No real experience coaching at the fbs level. D-
Posted on 2/7/17 at 11:09 am to fibonaccisquared
quote:
5* offensive recruits under Muschamp:
QB, OT, RB
4* offensive recruits under Muschamp:
TE, RB, QB, WR, WR, OG, TE, TE, RB, QB, WR, WR, WR, WR, QB, OT, ATH, WR
Or in other words 4 QB, 3 RB, 3 TE, 3 OL, 7 WR, and an ATH (QBish Treon). 21 over 4 years.
I'm not going to dance around these issues with you because I literally just posted your line -- four upperclassmen vs. our four underclassmen. There's literally nothing else to say after that for the OL.
As for Star Counts: Can you name any of those players that actually did well while at Florida on offense?
Recruiting, in part, is about development. He had the luster of Florida, but nothing after that. His final year he was suffering major losses in recruiting and was subsequently fired as a result.
And even with all of that ''offensive talent'' that you so humbly pointed out, he still posted the same numbers that McElwain has the last two years because...
Wait for it...
He couldn't fricking recruit offense and harness the talent for anything.
No idea why we have so many Georgia fans crawling all over these threads to try and say their team isn't recruiting well, or it's young when you guys have outrecruited us the last three years.
Not that it helped you any.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 11:11 am to TJGator1215
quote:
Mac- average coach-subpar recruiter C+
He won the East (with a win over LSU on the road to clinch it) and had a top-ten recruiting class.
Three years ago we were geting blown out by Vanderbilt and losing to FCS teams.
I'm not entirely sure what you want.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 11:34 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
You act like WM is the bar of success here. I prefer SOS and UM to either Mac or WM. Mac has zero excuses this year. He needs to be competitive team and a much improve offense or he's done. He has shown that all here.
Mich-L
NCU-W
UT-W
UK-W
VU-W
LSU-L
TAMU-L
UGA-L
Miz-W
SCAR-W
UAB-W
FSU-L
7-5. Mac's canned.
Mich-L
NCU-W
UT-W
UK-W
VU-W
LSU-L
TAMU-L
UGA-L
Miz-W
SCAR-W
UAB-W
FSU-L
7-5. Mac's canned.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 11:46 am to TJGator1215
What have you seen on the field that makes you honestly believe that UGA, LSU, or Texas A&M will beat us next year?
We've beaten UGA three straight years and they're coming off a loss to Tech and a narrow win over 6-7 TCU, Texas A&M loses a lot on offense including their starting quarterback and the best defensive player in the draft, and LSU is coached by a goblin that only the natives can understand. So what, beyond your blatant hate for all things Gator and McElwain, is your rationale for saying we'd lose to any of those three teams?
You lost all credibility a long time ago, but you just because a laughing stock when you call Randy Shannon a subpar coach and recruiter.
We've beaten UGA three straight years and they're coming off a loss to Tech and a narrow win over 6-7 TCU, Texas A&M loses a lot on offense including their starting quarterback and the best defensive player in the draft, and LSU is coached by a goblin that only the natives can understand. So what, beyond your blatant hate for all things Gator and McElwain, is your rationale for saying we'd lose to any of those three teams?
You lost all credibility a long time ago, but you just because a laughing stock when you call Randy Shannon a subpar coach and recruiter.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 11:47 am to atlgator
I'm glad you predicted us to go 7-5. Everything else you've predicted has been wrong. "We'll be lucky to have a top 20 class, Mac won't make changes to the staff, we're going to lose to Iowa" etc...
Posted on 2/7/17 at 4:51 pm to TJGator1215
Your incessant whining is hilarious, you're a fraud and a proven liar.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 5:18 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Hey, I'm as shocked as anyone that I agree with TJ on anything...
I'm not trying to be strictly argumentative, I just think it's interesting that you're not willing to concede that he has any point whatsoever. Many of UF's offensive woes stemmed from poor OC choices... Roper was only there the last year, right?
Not the same thing as not recruiting well. It's not like he went out and landed 4/5* athletes that no one else wanted.. he swung, he evaluated, he landed them... at a higher clip than Mac.
No... *Coaching* is in part about development. Recruiting is strictly about talent accumulation. Get guys with the right body types, the right skill sets, and hopefully the right personal characteristics, and then *coach* them up. You can fault Muschamp and Co for not coaching the guys up once they got onto campus, but to try and equate Muschamp's recruiting to Mac's is doing Champ a disservice... he might not do much right, but he does recruit well.
I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally? It's a message board... for discussion purposes. If you don't enjoy discussing things and you just want to hear people agree with you, the Florida board is calling your name...
Who's trying to say we haven't recruited well? We have roster deficiencies. Recruiting rankings do not account for this. As you mentioned from Muschamp's recruiting days, not every recruit pans out the way you hope. We haven't recruited OL (and in some ways WR) particularly well for the last 5-8 years I'd say, most of the last half of Richt's tenure basically. This year, one would hope the haul we brought in will make a pretty big change there. As far as the last 3 years, only one of those is on Smart, and there's a reason Richt isn't here any longer. With regards to the future on field results, we'll see what happens come fall I suppose...
I'm not trying to be strictly argumentative, I just think it's interesting that you're not willing to concede that he has any point whatsoever. Many of UF's offensive woes stemmed from poor OC choices... Roper was only there the last year, right?
quote:
As for Star Counts: Can you name any of those players that actually did well while at Florida on offense?
Not the same thing as not recruiting well. It's not like he went out and landed 4/5* athletes that no one else wanted.. he swung, he evaluated, he landed them... at a higher clip than Mac.
quote:
Recruiting, in part, is about development. He had the luster of Florida, but nothing after that. His final year he was suffering major losses in recruiting and was subsequently fired as a result.
No... *Coaching* is in part about development. Recruiting is strictly about talent accumulation. Get guys with the right body types, the right skill sets, and hopefully the right personal characteristics, and then *coach* them up. You can fault Muschamp and Co for not coaching the guys up once they got onto campus, but to try and equate Muschamp's recruiting to Mac's is doing Champ a disservice... he might not do much right, but he does recruit well.
quote:
No idea why we have so many Georgia fans crawling all over these threads to try and say their team isn't recruiting well, or it's young when you guys have outrecruited us the last three years.
Not that it helped you any.
I'm not sure why you're taking this so personally? It's a message board... for discussion purposes. If you don't enjoy discussing things and you just want to hear people agree with you, the Florida board is calling your name...
Who's trying to say we haven't recruited well? We have roster deficiencies. Recruiting rankings do not account for this. As you mentioned from Muschamp's recruiting days, not every recruit pans out the way you hope. We haven't recruited OL (and in some ways WR) particularly well for the last 5-8 years I'd say, most of the last half of Richt's tenure basically. This year, one would hope the haul we brought in will make a pretty big change there. As far as the last 3 years, only one of those is on Smart, and there's a reason Richt isn't here any longer. With regards to the future on field results, we'll see what happens come fall I suppose...
Posted on 2/7/17 at 5:20 pm to TJGator1215
LSU-L
TAMU-L
You win at least one of those games...
UGA-L
I have no idea what will happen in this game. Even when we should win... we don't.
TAMU-L
You win at least one of those games...
UGA-L
I have no idea what will happen in this game. Even when we should win... we don't.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 6:36 pm to Nukeese
quote:
Franklin is recruiting at a very high level, happy for him
He seems alright. But frick Penn State.
Posted on 2/7/17 at 9:59 pm to TJGator1215
quote:
You act like WM is the bar of success here. I prefer SOS and UM to either Mac or WM. Mac has zero excuses this year. He needs to be competitive team and a much improve offense or he's done. He has shown that all here.
I'm not saying any of that you retard, I'm saying I like where we are more than where we were.
Before even looking at your predictions: You have no idea what the offense is going to look like -- we finally have real receivers, our line is finally full of upperclassmen and our running backs are getting their reps. The QB is a massive, massive question mark but if either Trask or Franks come in to start and are actually pretty damn good, you're going to eat a whole bunch of words (as you already have).
Michigan: Didn't they lose to the same Iowa team that we blew out with our second string defense, backup quarterback, backup center, backup defensive coordinator?
LSU: No way, our defense, which was half broken and missing its upperclassmen held them off pretty well and without Fournette, they're going to be an entirely different team.
TAMU: Are you joking? They gave up 54 points to a team that couldn't score more than one touchdown against us. They're also going to be in The Swamp.
UGA: We seem to have their number, it'd have to be a special team because even if it's Treon Harris they seem to just flat out get blown out.
FSU: I see that, too.
I honestly think we lose again to Tennessee, though, that one you have incorrect.
So I can see us winning 10 again easy, unless McElwain absolutely shits the bed.
Posted on 2/8/17 at 6:52 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
The problem with TJ is that he wouldn't care if Florida won 10 games next year. Or even 11 games. He would still be on this board, bitching about the coaching, bitching about the roster, bitching about the recruiting, bitching about a play call, bitching about us not having enough yards, bitching about everything
Posted on 2/8/17 at 8:39 am to atlgator
This is the kind of fire I miss on the Florida board with TJ gone, LOL.
Make or break year for Mac. He either proves he belongs this year, or he falls on his face and he is forever known as the coach that could only win with Muschamp's players.
Let that sink in. LOL.
As far as the schedule, it is tough as hell, and unless UF finds a QB, every game will be a dog fight just like last year.
Make or break year for Mac. He either proves he belongs this year, or he falls on his face and he is forever known as the coach that could only win with Muschamp's players.
Let that sink in. LOL.
As far as the schedule, it is tough as hell, and unless UF finds a QB, every game will be a dog fight just like last year.
Posted on 2/8/17 at 9:50 am to slayerxing
quote:
This is the kind of fire I miss on the Florida board with TJ gone, LOL.
Make or break year for Mac. He either proves he belongs this year, or he falls on his face and he is forever known as the coach that could only win with Muschamp's players.
Let that sink in. LOL.
As far as the schedule, it is tough as hell, and unless UF finds a QB, every game will be a dog fight just like last year.
Honestly, I'd be disappointed if we only had eight wins.
The weakest teams from our division are our away games. (South Carolina, Kentucky and Missouri).
We literally have 3 ''Away Games'' the entire season. The others are neutral sites.
We have a tune-up game before hosting Tennessee.
Kentucky and Vanderbilt before LSU.
BYE before Georgia.
Missouri, South Carolina and UAB before FSU.
It's a very favorable schedule, and if McElwain hits 8 wins only it's a losing season for me.
Posted on 2/8/17 at 6:17 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
I like winning NCs and the SEC and getting elite players. It seems you guys are okay with 10 wins and getting blown out so long as we make the SECCG. Not to be competitive in these games but just to be there. This is Florida, not Missouri.
Michigan beat Mac 41-7 with an nfl defense looking childish and zero offense.
We had 4*-5* players that surrounded those players. Caleb Brantley, Quincy Wilson are gone. You act like Mac had zero great players on this team.
Translating a team's performance to our game does nothing to how the game will play out. UF has a young defense and terrible offense til proven otherwise. TAMU loves to throw and run. Arkansas 2.0
UGA had no OL and a POROUS defense. They're upgrading talent all over while we're recruiting at the lowest levels in UF's history of rankings.
I don't see how winning 8 is easy. There's ? marks all over the coaching staff, defense and offense.
Michigan beat Mac 41-7 with an nfl defense looking childish and zero offense.
We had 4*-5* players that surrounded those players. Caleb Brantley, Quincy Wilson are gone. You act like Mac had zero great players on this team.
Translating a team's performance to our game does nothing to how the game will play out. UF has a young defense and terrible offense til proven otherwise. TAMU loves to throw and run. Arkansas 2.0
UGA had no OL and a POROUS defense. They're upgrading talent all over while we're recruiting at the lowest levels in UF's history of rankings.
I don't see how winning 8 is easy. There's ? marks all over the coaching staff, defense and offense.
Posted on 2/8/17 at 8:50 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
LSU is going to skulldrag Florida this year. Guice made this offense just as good as fournette did.
This post was edited on 2/8/17 at 9:46 pm
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