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re: You guys spend 2 weeks talking about how Auburn is going down.....
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:37 pm to RummelTiger
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:37 pm to RummelTiger
quote:
And where are you getting this from?
Multiple places. Don't want to call them "sources". I have no sources...just the things being said by those that aren't emotionally involved, and who should know. And yes, it's in the public...if you want to hear it. Some don't want to hear it, and poo poo it because they don't want to hear it.
1
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:39 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
Buck Sweep
You are MORE guilty than the people you're pointing the finger at. You're CHOOSING to listen to what sounds positive by your Auburn peers... you have no logical backup, as you said... and you're calling people out for believing the negative "hearsay."
The problem is... no matter what.. there IS a truth to what happened with the Newtons, and no matter of putting our thoughts where we want them will change that truth. Also, what the NCAA decides to do with it when they have the whole story contained is a whole different issue.
Try not following your emotions or vibes... try to follow the evidence... and try to be rational. You will conclude what most of this board does. Cecil did it... it happened, now what's gonna happen with it... that's totally open game for speculation.
This post was edited on 11/19/10 at 10:43 pm
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:43 pm to m2pro
quote:
m2pro
Confirmation bias. Both sides are guilty.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:45 pm to cyde
quote:
Confirmation bias. Both sides are guilty.
absolutely. which is why it's interesting how EVERY non-bama/auburn fan sees it how Bama fans do.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:46 pm to m2pro
quote:
context issue here... let me try to correct it. i think it's aimed at auburn fans who come on here and steadfastly maintain that NOTHING HAPPENED and Cam and Cecil are INNOCENT. that's why so many boogs are getting bashed like they deserve.
Cam innocent? Don't know, don't care really. If you understand that Cam was at Blinn, playing football until Dec of last year, it's plausible to think he was never part of any "money talks". You can believe what suits you, I won't change your mind.
Cecil? I believe he was involved in money talks. Whether he initiated it, or whether Rogers did, is anybody's guess. I believe that Roger's approached him, and Cecil considered it. If you think about it, Cam wanted to go to State by all accounts. Why did they need to pay him? I don't think Mullen's staff was involved. I know this Kenny Rogers. Don't KNOW know him, but I've met him. It's entirely possible he saw an opportunity to buy Cam, and make himself some money, and started the ball rolling. In my mind it's even likely.
Here's what some folks can't grasp. In and of itself, while that skates near the NCAA rules...merely discussing it doesn't make Cam ineligible. I've heard 3 lawyers that specialize in NCAA work say that. The NCAA won't tell you it's legal to do it, but the rules are designed and worded to prevent an punish actually receiving benefits, not thinking or talking about it. Is "soliciting" it against the rules? Sorta kinda...but like the law...they don't punish petty theft the same as murder. And it does matter, whether you think it does or not, that money never changed hands. And it also matters that Cam doesn't play for MSU.
FWIW...
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:48 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
Buck Sweep
i hear you. and that's at least thought out and reasonable... but understand, most people would call that -very- wishful thinking...
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:50 pm to m2pro
if you know what hearsay is...I'm not believing hearsay. I'm believing the analysis of experts in the field.
BTW, I'm also biased. However, I am not delusional when I saw Cam walk on the field last Saturday AFTER he and his parents were interviewed by the NCAAA, AND 11 months after the NCAA was aware of the money talks at MSU. You can conjure up in your head that Auburn is "thumbing their noses" at the NCAA, but if you're being reasonable, you know that's not happening. They're acting on the advice of their compliance dept. based on what the NCAA is telling them.
BTW, I'm also biased. However, I am not delusional when I saw Cam walk on the field last Saturday AFTER he and his parents were interviewed by the NCAAA, AND 11 months after the NCAA was aware of the money talks at MSU. You can conjure up in your head that Auburn is "thumbing their noses" at the NCAA, but if you're being reasonable, you know that's not happening. They're acting on the advice of their compliance dept. based on what the NCAA is telling them.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:51 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
Here's what some folks can't grasp. In and of itself, while that skates near the NCAA rules...merely discussing it doesn't make Cam ineligible. I've heard 3 lawyers that specialize in NCAA work say that. The NCAA won't tell you it's legal to do it, but the rules are designed and worded to prevent an punish actually receiving benefits, not thinking or talking about it. Is "soliciting" it against the rules? Sorta kinda...but like the law...they don't punish petty theft the same as murder. And it does matter, whether you think it does or not, that money never changed hands. And it also matters that Cam doesn't play for MSU.
That's the kind of thing that looks good on paper, and that you hope holds true in a high-profile case with no real precedent. If it were the law, where decisions are rigidly predicated, I would be a lot more willing to draw comfort from that if I were an Auburn fan.
On the other hand, the NCAA is under a lot of pressure and a huge spotlight right now. They could decide to set an example and there's nothing anyone would really be able to say about it.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:52 pm to auburnu008
Maybe the better question you should ask yourself is what are you gonna do next season when Cam has left "the family" after one season for the NFL and you guys are back to being a second tier SEC team?
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:52 pm to m2pro
I can't take credit for "thinking it out". Merely listening to what I hear.
Even Paul Finebaum said today (paraphrasing) that unless something new is uncovered, Auburn and Cam are in the clear. He's basing his opinion on all he knows, from all his sources, and the experts that are looking at this without bias.
Even Paul Finebaum said today (paraphrasing) that unless something new is uncovered, Auburn and Cam are in the clear. He's basing his opinion on all he knows, from all his sources, and the experts that are looking at this without bias.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:54 pm to Buck Sweep
at this point, auburn is doing whatever they believe is most advantageous for their program. what they failed to do is oversee the Newton recruitment properly. in the very least, auburn was negligent and will still very likely have to vacate the whole year.
but it's not negligence when it's SO deep that it's over the HC's head. it's something more. y'all are very unfortunate to have dye and company still so involved.
but it's not negligence when it's SO deep that it's over the HC's head. it's something more. y'all are very unfortunate to have dye and company still so involved.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:55 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
Even Paul Finebaum said today (paraphrasing) that unless something new is uncovered, Auburn and Cam are in the clear. He's basing his opinion on all he knows, from all his sources, and the experts that are looking at this without bias.
And that may well be true, but we have to consider the wild card -- what the investigating agencies know that we (including Finebaum) don't know.
What they know that we don't may amount to nothing, and it may amount to everything. That's the point. We just don't know. That's why you have to be cautious right up until the official press conferences start. The media likes to make it out to seem like they know more than we do. Far more often than not, they don't.
This post was edited on 11/19/10 at 10:56 pm
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:55 pm to cyde
cyde,
The NCAA, unlike Judges, Prosecutors, and Police, can be sued for their actions. Trust me when I tell you, they're not flying by the seat of their pants...they write the rules, and enforce them. They're not going to fight the Newtons, and Auburn by finding either "guilty" of a rule that doesn't exist.
And, again, like in the law...it matters A LOT that money never changed hands. That always makes a huge difference.
The NCAA, unlike Judges, Prosecutors, and Police, can be sued for their actions. Trust me when I tell you, they're not flying by the seat of their pants...they write the rules, and enforce them. They're not going to fight the Newtons, and Auburn by finding either "guilty" of a rule that doesn't exist.
And, again, like in the law...it matters A LOT that money never changed hands. That always makes a huge difference.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:56 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
Even Paul Finebaum said today (paraphrasing) that unless something new is uncovered, Auburn and Cam are in the clear. He's basing his opinion on all he knows, from all his sources, and the experts that are looking at this without bias.
i'd have to have heard what he said, but if you're right then that's at least something. finebaum has fun screwing around with shite... but he wouldn't be foolish enough to not offer his 100% honest opinion about something concerning EITHER Alabama or Auburn. we are his crowd... we are his money. he will always say exactly what he feels about both of our programs.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:58 pm to m2pro
quote:
at this point, auburn is doing whatever they believe is most advantageous for their program. what they failed to do is oversee the Newton recruitment properly. in the very least, auburn was negligent and will still very likely have to vacate the whole year. but it's not negligence when it's SO deep that it's over the HC's head. it's something more. y'all are very unfortunate to have dye and company still so involved.
If you really believe that, you've not been paying attention, and discussing that further would be futile. That is the fall back of those still wanting the hammer to fall though. "Look at Dye and Lowder". Go look!
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:58 pm to Buck Sweep
Why hasn't he been cleared? It's not as cut and dry as you'd like to make it. People have been discussing the corruption at Auburn as far back as the Eric Smith case last year. Your view of college sports is overly simplistic, and none of us know at this point whether or not Cam will be found to be innocent until the NCAA interprets the rules and information that they find.
Until then, it would befit your interests to stop sounding like a 3rd grader trying to convince everyone that Skeletor is good. No one will believe you.
Until then, it would befit your interests to stop sounding like a 3rd grader trying to convince everyone that Skeletor is good. No one will believe you.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 10:59 pm to Buck Sweep
quote:
If you really believe that, you've not been paying attention, and discussing that further would be futile. That is the fall back of those still wanting the hammer to fall though. "Look at Dye and Lowder". Go look!
you misunderstood me. i meant that Auburn is doing exactly what they believe is best for their program... clearly. why would they do anything else?
in fact, i'm not sure what you think i meant or how you were confused about that.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 11:00 pm to m2pro
m2pro...
He said pretty much exactly that. And I know when he's dangling bait, and when he's serious. Of course, he added the "if nothing else surfaces".
As I've said, if a money trail is discovered...all bets are off for me.
It's not delusional to assert that Auburn hasn't even been accused of wrongdoing...well except by those that simply believe that's all we do.
He said pretty much exactly that. And I know when he's dangling bait, and when he's serious. Of course, he added the "if nothing else surfaces".
As I've said, if a money trail is discovered...all bets are off for me.
It's not delusional to assert that Auburn hasn't even been accused of wrongdoing...well except by those that simply believe that's all we do.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 11:03 pm to m2pro
quote:
you misunderstood me. i meant that Auburn is doing exactly what they believe is best for their program... clearly. why would they do anything else?
in fact, i'm not sure what you think i meant or how you were confused about that.
Was referring to the negligence in Cam's recruitment. I know that they had prior knowledge of what went on at State when they signed him.
However, just for the sake of argument, if they didn't, how is that negligent if only the parites knew. Due diligence doesn't uncover everything every time. But they knew, and they've cooperated. Another reason, that if there's any doubt...they'll benefit from that cooperation.
Posted on 11/19/10 at 11:08 pm to Bellabama
quote:
Until then, it would befit your interests to stop sounding like a 3rd grader trying to convince everyone that Skeletor is good. No one will believe you.
Pfft
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