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re: Why are the Mississippi schools historically terrible in football?
Posted on 10/31/15 at 8:56 am to LSUTigersVCURams
Posted on 10/31/15 at 8:56 am to LSUTigersVCURams
Low population and No. 1 Poorest State: Mississippi
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Posted on 10/31/15 at 8:57 am to TigerintheNO
The greatest players in the history of Louisiana went to LA Tech, Tennessee, San Diego State, and Ole Miss
This post was edited on 10/31/15 at 8:59 am
Posted on 10/31/15 at 8:59 am to OBReb6
quote:
The greatest player in the history of Louisiana history went to Angola
FIFY
Posted on 10/31/15 at 9:16 am to reggierayreb
If you are interested in a real answer, I'll try to give it to you.
Both Ole Miss and Mississippi State had good 10-15 year runs before the 60s. Ole Miss was with Vaught, MSU was pre-World War II. So I am assuming you are referring to modern college football.
Here are the factors.
1. Degegregation hit the Mississippi schools harder. It took a few years after the Mississippi schools allowed black players for black players to even want to go to State and Ole Miss. As was mentioned, Jerry Rice (who grew up right outside Starkville) and Walter Payton went to HBCUs. "The best that never was," Marcus Dupree only considered Southern Miss in-state. This was the 1980s, 20 years after black players were allowed.
2. A reluctance to build a student-centric atmosphere. Its no secret that State and Ole Miss played the Egg Bowl in Jackson for many years, but most people don't know that State and Ole Miss played most of their SEC home games in Jackson for 30 years. Bigger stadium, closer to alumni base, etc. - but it killed the on campus atmosphere of alumni coming in and students going to games. From 1977-1981, things were so bad that MSU played no more than two games on campus in a season, and in four years, only faced one team with a winning record on campus.
3. This led to another problem. Facilities were awful. In the 1980s, the first boom of college football facility wars were starting. Because the Mississippi schools barely played on campus, no improvements were made. In 1995, the Mississippi schools' on campus facilities held about 40,000.
4. A series of bad coaches. Partly because of the good old boy system, and partly because of the lack of finances, both Ole Miss and State went through a period of years where the coaches were not SEC-quality. Bob Tyler was 21-44 at MSU in the 70s. Rockey Felker was his QB. They hired a 33 year old Rockey Felker in the 80s. He went 21-34. Steve Sloan killed what Johnny Vaught built at Ole Miss.
5. The horrible education system in Mississippi. A novel could be written about the mistakes here, but Mississippi has a good share of football talent. As recently as 2004, most of the Dandy Dozen were not academically eligible. Mississippi has JUCO football, and the JUCOs are happy to take these academic casualties, but it has always been used as a fall back. For years, Mississippi was the only SEC state that had junior college football, and it hurt State and Ole Miss under the guise of helping them.
Both Ole Miss and Mississippi State had good 10-15 year runs before the 60s. Ole Miss was with Vaught, MSU was pre-World War II. So I am assuming you are referring to modern college football.
Here are the factors.
1. Degegregation hit the Mississippi schools harder. It took a few years after the Mississippi schools allowed black players for black players to even want to go to State and Ole Miss. As was mentioned, Jerry Rice (who grew up right outside Starkville) and Walter Payton went to HBCUs. "The best that never was," Marcus Dupree only considered Southern Miss in-state. This was the 1980s, 20 years after black players were allowed.
2. A reluctance to build a student-centric atmosphere. Its no secret that State and Ole Miss played the Egg Bowl in Jackson for many years, but most people don't know that State and Ole Miss played most of their SEC home games in Jackson for 30 years. Bigger stadium, closer to alumni base, etc. - but it killed the on campus atmosphere of alumni coming in and students going to games. From 1977-1981, things were so bad that MSU played no more than two games on campus in a season, and in four years, only faced one team with a winning record on campus.
3. This led to another problem. Facilities were awful. In the 1980s, the first boom of college football facility wars were starting. Because the Mississippi schools barely played on campus, no improvements were made. In 1995, the Mississippi schools' on campus facilities held about 40,000.
4. A series of bad coaches. Partly because of the good old boy system, and partly because of the lack of finances, both Ole Miss and State went through a period of years where the coaches were not SEC-quality. Bob Tyler was 21-44 at MSU in the 70s. Rockey Felker was his QB. They hired a 33 year old Rockey Felker in the 80s. He went 21-34. Steve Sloan killed what Johnny Vaught built at Ole Miss.
5. The horrible education system in Mississippi. A novel could be written about the mistakes here, but Mississippi has a good share of football talent. As recently as 2004, most of the Dandy Dozen were not academically eligible. Mississippi has JUCO football, and the JUCOs are happy to take these academic casualties, but it has always been used as a fall back. For years, Mississippi was the only SEC state that had junior college football, and it hurt State and Ole Miss under the guise of helping them.
Posted on 10/31/15 at 9:17 am to SavageOrangeJug
Guess you missed where op said historically.
Posted on 10/31/15 at 9:17 am to reggierayreb
Fournette?
Posted on 10/31/15 at 9:18 am to LSUTigersVCURams
Arkansas, LSU, and Tennessee don't have to spilt their state with another *big* football program (sorry Vandy)
If Ole Miss and State were one school, it would be an omnipotent football power.
If Ole Miss and State were one school, it would be an omnipotent football power.
Posted on 10/31/15 at 9:37 am to LSUTigersVCURams
because there are 2 of them.
Posted on 10/31/15 at 9:38 am to cbi8
quote:
Arkansas, LSU, and Tennessee don't have to spilt their state with another *big* football program (sorry Vandy)
If Ole Miss and State were one school, it would be an omnipotent football power.
I'm not sure they would be omnipotent but they would be quite a force to reckon with. Not to mention Southern Miss is a solid medium tier program. The Golden Eagles don't get the first rate players, unless they are over looked, but they do snap up quite a bit of the players that tend to fill out a football team.
Posted on 10/31/15 at 9:49 am to cbi8
I know I'm going to catch shite for saying this but up until recently, and by recently I mean the past 5-10 years, Ole miss was full of racist undertones. Why would any black athlete or American want to go there. I can remember going to the grove during the 90's and seeing very little black people in there tail gateing and people openly calling the black sororities and fraternities houses the "slave quarters." Why would any 4-5 star athlete subject themselves to that. Now I do admit the atmosphere there has changed for the better but you can't change the minds of the parents or grandparents of these athletes who still hold grudges against the school.
Posted on 10/31/15 at 9:51 am to cbi8
If Alabama combined with Auburn can you imagine? Really good teams combined with shite house luck.
This post was edited on 10/31/15 at 9:53 am
Posted on 10/31/15 at 10:01 am to Tigerman97
quote:
They have far less in state talent than there neighbors in any direction but split it between the 2 schools.
We have more per capita than all other states except Georgia I believe. We just have a much smaller population...we have way more talent than Arkansas though.
We just aren't big enough of a state to support 2 SEC schools and try to keep our kids in state rather than go to LSU or Bama. Freeze and Mullen are keeping way more talent from Ms in the state and it is leading to much more success for both schools.
Posted on 10/31/15 at 10:03 am to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Guess you missed the days when we had Vaught as our head coach.
you mean before blacks played?
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