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re: Which is WORSE? Bandwagon fans or Sidewalk fans
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:33 am to sorantable
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:33 am to sorantable
Fighting Okra sidewalker here..
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Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:34 am to KSGamecock
quote:
Maybe I'm an elitist but I don't buy that "I couldn't afford to go to my favorite in-state public school" sob story. If you had a heartbeat in high school, didn't knock up your girlfriend and are able to make a little bit of sacrifice/take on some debt most schools that have sidewalkers are affordable.
Not all states have the life, hope, and Palmetto fellows scholarships that will pay for any in state school. Not all state schools are as Cheap as South Carolina or Clemson. Sometimes there are good kids out there who JUST CAN'T PAY for school. It's not their fault they don't want to pay college loans until they're 50.
And I'm sure there would be plenty of kids who would drop out of USC if they lost their life or hope scholarship.
This post was edited on 4/24/14 at 11:41 am
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:35 am to thatdude1985
quote:
what point? that you're a moron? or a badass elitists?
My point is that for a kid growing up in Alabama if they work "hard" in High School, don't make idiotic life decisions and are willing to put their neck out a little the University of Alabama is perfectly affordable.
The only people using that "I couldn't afford it" line are people that screwed up somehow.
This is even more true in states with a lottery scholarship.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:37 am to Patton
No doubt. This OP itself is kind of interesting. I think some are missing the fact that non-alum fans most likely buy the bulk of gear, purchase tickets, watch on TV creating the airtime revenue, and work a job in the state paying tax that supports the universities...and other such things.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:37 am to KSGamecock
You could say that about any kid in any state in America.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:37 am to Carolina Tide
quote:
Not all states have the life, hope, and Carolina fellows scholarships that will pay for any in state school. Not all state schools are as Cheap as South Carolina or Clemson. Sometimes there are good kids out there who JUST CAN'T PAY for school. It's not their fault they don't want to pay college loans until they're 50.
And I'm sure there would be plenty of kids who would drop out if USC if they lost their life or hope scholarship.
Not buying that one either.
I graduated from HS in Georgia but went to USC so I didn't qualify for HOPE or LIFE and I still graduated without any student debt because I'm not an idiot.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:38 am to Patton
quote:
You could say that about any kid in any state in America.
So how am I an idiot then?
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:38 am to randomways
quote:
There's an enormous fallacy, though, in tarring them with that brush when you could just as easily tar alumni/students with the same brush. Are you one of the frat guys at Death Valley tossing piss balloons? If not, you certainly don't want to be treated like them. The same applies to sidewalk fans.
Sure, as noted the teabagger was an alum. I am not generalizing and saying sidewalk fans are overall bad, just that comparatively as a group they are the worst group of fans ON AVERAGE, and that average is driven by outliers.
quote:
It's just as silly to look down on someone for not attending your school as it is to look down on someone attending a school with a worse football team than yours. Either way, it seems unnecessarily condescending, imho.
I am not looking down on all sidewalk fans.
My father in law is a sidewalk fan by definition. No college degree himself, but he put two girls through at A&M, has season tickets, and has donated more to the program than I probably ever will. He is a bigger A&M fan than me, heck he respects the brand more than me. His father's Aggie ring is his most prized possession.
He is a good fan, sidewalk or not. I am proud he represents my university. I am not being condescending to fans like him.
I reserve my condensation for a particular breed of sidewalk fan- one whose only claim to a program was the fact he was born in that state or some other arbitrary thing, and who tries to leverage the success of that program (relative to the success of other programs) to feel better about himself by tearing down other fans.
This type of fan is close to a bandwagoner, aka they ride the coattails of team success. The difference is unlike a bandwagon fan who wants to root for a winner, this type of sidewalk fan uses the team brand as a way to feel superior to someone else because their normal life gives them no such opportunities because they suck at life.
This type of sidewalker, in my opinion, is the worst type of fan on the earth. Worse than teabagging alums (who then have to live with that brand hit) and worse than a unloyal bandwagoner with a closet full of different team jerseys. This type of fan is so bad that they drag down all sidewalk fans on average.
Why?
Because they take something with real value (the team brand) and borrow against that value (their shitty self esteem boost) without any claim to the principle. They basically spend someone else's money (since the brand is worth money) to feel better about themselves. As an alum, that is MY brand value they are spending and for that reason they can go frick themselves.
The worst sidewalk fan is a self esteem welfare case basically and I have no respect for that lifestyle.
You don't see these fans as much I assume because you live in a one-team state. I notice the USC fans sympathize with me, and that is because Clemson provides for them the exact type of fans I am talking about.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:38 am to KSGamecock
I didn't say you were an idiot I said that post was rediculous.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:41 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
hey now
IMO there's a huge difference in being optimistic and wearing blinders and seeing no wrong/saying nothing against the program
Basically I hate when ppl think they're better fans and or think your worse because you voice a negative opinion
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:42 am to Damn Good Dawg
^ biggest Disney dawg on this site
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:42 am to Patton
quote:
I didn't say you were an idiot I said that post was rediculous
Ok then.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:46 am to KSGamecock
Well good for you.
Ok, so now if you graduate with student debt you're an idiot? Well hell, I guess those Harvard, Yale, and Stanford grads with $100,000 debt are the biggest idiots of all.
Ok, so now if you graduate with student debt you're an idiot? Well hell, I guess those Harvard, Yale, and Stanford grads with $100,000 debt are the biggest idiots of all.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:48 am to Damn Good Dawg
quote:
Basically I hate when ppl think they're better fans and or think your worse because you voice a negative opinion
This.
I had a bandwagoner tell me a few years ago that I wasn't "a true fan" after I'd voiced an opinion critical (but not derogatory) of the program.
Me = donor of and two degrees from my school
Him = $0 and none
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:50 am to KSGamecock
I called you an idiot because you have idiotic views. I realize I am talking to a badass elitists so don't hit me.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:51 am to sorantable
penn state fans of any kind
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:55 am to Carolina Tide
quote:
Ok, so now if you graduate with student debt you're an idiot
No but I brought that up because you played the lottery scholarship card.
Also just to address your "Not all state schools are as Cheap as South Carolina"...no but every public SEC school has both lower in-state tuition and lower out-of-state tuition rates than USC iirc.
quote:
I called you an idiot because you have idiotic views. I realize I am talking to a badass elitists so don't hit me.
If anything my opinion is populist as shite.
This post was edited on 4/24/14 at 11:57 am
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:58 am to thatdude1985
quote:
You make good points but I think it's blown out of proportion.
Sure you would think that, you are a Bama fan.
Go over to the Miss state line and ask some Ole Miss fans about sidewalkers. Ask them about all the Alabama boys who are glorified ditch diggers who act like they are superior to anyone in Mississippi because of the Tide, even if that Mississippian is an Ole Miss grad who is successful enough to pay for the ditch to get dug.
I grew up around that area so I saw a lot of that, but it happens all over.
In many regions of the country, this type of fan gravitates to the pro teams. Luckily in Texas I deal with more Cowboy sidewalkers (who can go frick themselves the Saints have had a much better decade) than Longhorn sidewalkers. In the case of a pro team the brand exists purely for entertainment value so have at it I say.
In fact I see pro teams as a way to tap into a primitive tribal aspect of the human race that my worst-case sidewalker is very close to personal development-wise. If clinging to that team gives them the sense of community they need to cope with a huge modern globalized world then fine let them have it. My worst-case sidewalker is increasingly facing a labor market where his low level of skills keeps him from participating as much as he can, and that will create self esteem issues. Leaning on the Cowboys is a better outlet than beating your wife or whatever.
But in the SEC because there are less pro teams these people gravitate to universities with brands that represent more than just crazy fans. Their alums NEED the brand to represent more, and a worst-case sidewalk fan debases that finer mission.
So at a pro-level, maybe a bandwagoner is more annoying. At the college level, those random sidewalkers and their flying fists and shite talk are the same to me as a person who would pee on a national monument or draw graffiti on a work of art.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 11:59 am to cardboardboxer
Without this clarification, you seemed making an awful lot of assumptions about the generic sidewalk fan before, though. You do describe a very specific sort of fan and ask we agree that they suck, which, yeah, the fan you describe kind of sucks. But it also kind of describes plenty of alumni too. I'm not seeing a reason to buy that this is a reason to even bother discussing them as sidewalk fans simply because I'm not seeing evidence this is inherent to the breed, so to speak. It's a classic fallacy of composition.
My problem with your argument, to turn it to the teabagger, is that you either have no vested interest or have vested interest regardless. The teabagger hurts his brand, but he hurts yours as well, as does the (assuming one buys your argument) sidewalk fan you describe. Either you care about that in every case or you're best served, argumentatively-speaking, letting it slide in every case because I can't see how you can argue any moral validation in self-harm. Either way, you probably need to establish a more data-driven syllogism anyway. Your argument is mostly emotional, which doesn't establish solid evidence that even the most obnoxious sidewalk fan harms the brand in any way that isn't measured in Internet validation. I may mock Alabama for Updyke. I may needle TAMU fans for Manziel's exploits and the PR disaster that is old-timey male cheerleader photos. But the brand hasn't been demonstrably hurt in either case unless you can provide more evidence.
My problem with your argument, to turn it to the teabagger, is that you either have no vested interest or have vested interest regardless. The teabagger hurts his brand, but he hurts yours as well, as does the (assuming one buys your argument) sidewalk fan you describe. Either you care about that in every case or you're best served, argumentatively-speaking, letting it slide in every case because I can't see how you can argue any moral validation in self-harm. Either way, you probably need to establish a more data-driven syllogism anyway. Your argument is mostly emotional, which doesn't establish solid evidence that even the most obnoxious sidewalk fan harms the brand in any way that isn't measured in Internet validation. I may mock Alabama for Updyke. I may needle TAMU fans for Manziel's exploits and the PR disaster that is old-timey male cheerleader photos. But the brand hasn't been demonstrably hurt in either case unless you can provide more evidence.
Posted on 4/24/14 at 12:05 pm to cardboardboxer
quote:
Sure you would think that, you are a Bama fan.
Go over to the Miss state line and ask some Ole Miss fans about sidewalkers. Ask them about all the Alabama boys who are glorified ditch diggers who act like they are superior to anyone in Mississippi because of the Tide, even if that Mississippian is an Ole Miss grad who is successful enough to pay for the ditch to get dug.
I'm a Vandy grad who was born and partly raised in Mississippi, and have lived in Tennessee (obviously), Michigan, New York, Ohio, and North Carolina. These all present opportunities for meeting so-called sidewalk fans, trust me. UNC/Duke basketball are hardly less magnets for them than Bama football or UK basketball. Ohio State is...eesh. Attending Michigan is beyond the reach of a large portion of its fanbase. So argument from experience is useless here. I obviously didn't reach the same conclusion despite similar experience, which I think tends to put your position in a precarious state of being almost entirely personal.
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