re: When was the true downfall of Tennessee football?

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Fulmer's teams were stacked with NFL talent through 08, but his coaching staff was absolutely awful as was the player development.

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So David Cutcliffe leaving after the 98 Championship season had nothing to do with any of it?

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So David Cutcliffe leaving after the 98 Championship season had nothing to do with any of it?

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That is what I was alluding to when I spoke of his coaching staff. Allowing losers like Randy Sanders, Pat Washington, Trooper Taylor, Larry Slade, Jimmy Ray Stephens, Stan Drayton, etc. attempt to develop your talent is a pretty big problem.

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I feel last year we pulled even with UT and this coming season with Coach Franklin's (best coach in the state) leadership, we will pull ahead for good.

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when you win an SEC title and a national title you can claim this or better yet when you win the East. Until then UT is always big brother in Tennessee.

Congrats on the giant turnaround! VU now has 2 wins over the Vols in 30 years. After your big tipping point win in 2005, here's what happened:
2006 39-10 Loss
2007 25-24 Loss
2008 20-10 Loss
2009 31-16 Loss
2010 24-10 Loss
2011 27-21 Loss
Guess what? Deja vu all over again after the big win in 2012!

Jamarcus Russell has an opinion on this.......

The moment Junior and Lulu made national TV.

There were a number of things that contributed:

1. Consider that at the start of 2002, UT had been the SEC east representative at the SECCG 3 of the previous 5 years, had won 1 national championship, Spurrier was gone, UK, Vandy, Alabama, and SCe were garbage, and UF had Ron Zook. However there was this young coach at UGA named Mark Richt... who promptly won the SEC east 3 of the next 4 years (02,03, and 05).

2. Even with the Mark Rich hiccup, UT still got back and won the east in 2004, and had a 2 game winning streak on Florida and had won 3 of the last 4, when Urban Meyer was hired in 2005. Florida hasn't lost in the series since that time. With two superior coaches in the same division, it was only a matter of time for UT. Consider that if UF didn't have Meyer in 2006, UF doesn't get Tebow and UF doesn't beat UT in 2006 and UT probably wins the division that year, and again in 2007 to start another run for them...

3. 2007 SECCG - with a chance to right the ship, Erik Ainge throws 2 4th quarter INT's and UT falls to eventual national champ LSU 21-14.

4. The 2008 season happens and it's a complete disaster. UT brings in it's worst recruiting class in years, off the field incidents are at an all time high from 2007 to 2008, and UT also loses 4 coaches including David Cutcliff and Trooper Taylor, and the bottom fell out after that as the offense was historically bad, in a year where if they had just been average they could have probably won 9 or 10 games.

5. Lane Kiffin comes in, and honestly, had he stayed, UT might actually have become competitive again, maybe, but what UT needed at this point in time was stability, a hand to right the ship, but Kiffin leaving after one year was the absolute worst thing that could happen. So UT goes to it's third coach in less 18 months, and the program has lost all stability, and when you add in the fact that the 3rd hire was garbage, what you've done is successfully destroyed one of the elite programs of college football.

UT is no longer a two year fix. There is a culture of losing at UT now. Since 2008, they hav gone:

5-7, 7-6, 6-7, 5-7, 5-7. In that time they've had almost 0 stability.

08 Fulmer and mostly a new staff
09 Kiffin and entirely new staff
10 Dooley and entirely new staff
11 Dooley
12 Dooley and entirely new staff
13 Jones and entirely new staff

Unless Butch Jones is the next Nick Saban, then UT is at least 3 years away from being truly competitive in the SEC east, especially with the emergence of South Carolina, and the current strength of Florida, Georgia, and Alabama.

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Tennessee's downfall started when Fulmer testified as a secret witness for the NCAA against Alabama. Hell even Shula beat Fulmer a couple of times right? I can't remember the last time I was actually nervous about BAMA playing Tennessee. These days I just automatically check a "W" for the 3rd Saturday in October. I don't see that changing anytime soon. Karma and payback is a bitch...

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Good post, but I think you meant "karma kickback is a bitch," or "bad karma is a bitch."

No single entity is "paying back" Tennessee right now, it is their karma, an intangible.

Tennessee, under Fulmer, committed many atrocities over his decade and a half in power.

He stabbed his own boss in the back ... thus the Majors Curse.

He said a lot of very hubristic things about other programs which he was dominating at the time - not a very classy move.

He cheated his arse off in South Carolina, where recruiting was concerned .... I cannot attest to what he did in other states but there is always the famous Wells Fargo - Tee Martin receipts I suppose. In SC he was just blatant. He gave players cars, gave their families jobs, etc. Hell, we pretty much know he did it in North Carolina as well. What was that offensive lineman's name out of NC who's family came forward and ratted-out Fulmer once he left Knoxville. Brandon something or other maybe? Seems like it started with a B. Same kid who visited SC but could not commit here because our Governor, Hodges, had him over to the mansion and he was declared ineligible after that.

Anyways, as the saying went and I witnessed myself, the parking lot outside of the training and dorm area for UT football players used to look like an Escalade Dealership. Fulmer is one of the biggest scumbags of all times right there along with Mike Hamilton.

And yes, Fulmer sacrificed a lot of good people through his decisions and during his little meetings with Culpepper, and others, over at Jim, Jimmy and Bill Haslam's secret hide-a-way near Chattanooga.

It's karma kickback they are experiencing throughout all of their athletic department, not payback administered by any one individual or program. And it appears to be a well-deserved karma kickback.