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re: Slive's love affair with Atlanta
Posted on 3/15/14 at 12:38 pm to Cheese Grits
Posted on 3/15/14 at 12:38 pm to Cheese Grits
I'm willing to bet the gouging isn't as bad as it may seem. Room counts are just as important as anything else. In a city like Nashville, rates will likely go up. There's 37,000 or so rooms in Nashville, and if the SEC Tournament brings more than 37,000 people needing rooms, the rates will have to go up. Someone coming to Nashville for the basketball tournament likely won't return for a vacation, and if they do...they'll think they got a deal on the room compared to their first trip for the tournament. If they'd been to Nashville before and paid less they may feel a bit gouged, but if they didn't like the prices they wouldn't come for the tournament. Keep in mind, the tournament won't likely be the only thing going on in town that week, and the natural occupancy will also create a supply/demand issue.
Atlanta has (by the most recent number I could find) about 80,000 rooms. Assuming it's a slow week in Atlanta, I can't really see much in the way of "gouging" due to the SEC Tournament.
New Orleans has about 50,000 hotel rooms and a sizable natural demand without the tournament, so some price increases are likely.
The fact of the matter is that in order to keep travel prices low and room rates relatively flat Atlanta is the best option in the SEC footprint due to Hartsfield and the room inventory in the city.
Short of that, you'd have to do what four other conferences have done and come to a place outside the footprint like here in Las Vegas where flights are cheap and there are 150,000 rooms, but then everyone's flying across two time zones to come to the SEC tournament in the southwest.
Then again, LV has a huge room inventory and a means of gaining revenue outside of room and food/bev sales.
ETA: "Raping the tourists" isn't anything but supply and demand. The need for 50,000 rooms in a city with 37,000 rooms available is going to cause rates to go up no matter what, any hotel that doesn't raise their rates in that situation deserves to go out of business. Just like room rates go up in the Caribbean during spring break for the kids or in the summer when families go on vacation.
Cities want to increase occupancy to maximize room tax revenue, hotels just want to increase revenue.
Atlanta has (by the most recent number I could find) about 80,000 rooms. Assuming it's a slow week in Atlanta, I can't really see much in the way of "gouging" due to the SEC Tournament.
New Orleans has about 50,000 hotel rooms and a sizable natural demand without the tournament, so some price increases are likely.
The fact of the matter is that in order to keep travel prices low and room rates relatively flat Atlanta is the best option in the SEC footprint due to Hartsfield and the room inventory in the city.
Short of that, you'd have to do what four other conferences have done and come to a place outside the footprint like here in Las Vegas where flights are cheap and there are 150,000 rooms, but then everyone's flying across two time zones to come to the SEC tournament in the southwest.
Then again, LV has a huge room inventory and a means of gaining revenue outside of room and food/bev sales.
ETA: "Raping the tourists" isn't anything but supply and demand. The need for 50,000 rooms in a city with 37,000 rooms available is going to cause rates to go up no matter what, any hotel that doesn't raise their rates in that situation deserves to go out of business. Just like room rates go up in the Caribbean during spring break for the kids or in the summer when families go on vacation.
Cities want to increase occupancy to maximize room tax revenue, hotels just want to increase revenue.
This post was edited on 3/15/14 at 12:42 pm
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Posted on 3/15/14 at 12:44 pm to Govt Tide
Cheese Grits argument for the basketball tournament is that it should be held in proximity to the larger actual fanbases. Shreveport and Memphis are the cities that closest fit that argument in regards to baseball. As those numbers show, other than Florida and South Carolina, the league members who actually attend the sport would be serviced with such a tournament location.
My post was in response to a different poster. He asked what was wrong with Hoover as a venue. My point is that Hoover is not centralized to the baseball fanbases in the SEC who actually attend the sport. Why should there be a different standard for determining the location of the baseball tournament than the basketball tournament, when supposedly ease of access to fans is an issue?
My post was in response to a different poster. He asked what was wrong with Hoover as a venue. My point is that Hoover is not centralized to the baseball fanbases in the SEC who actually attend the sport. Why should there be a different standard for determining the location of the baseball tournament than the basketball tournament, when supposedly ease of access to fans is an issue?
Posted on 3/15/14 at 12:45 pm to Mizzeaux
quote:
Short of that, you'd have to do what four other conferences have done and come to a place outside the footprint like here in Las Vegas
One of my take-always from this thread--something I honestly didn't realize before now--is that many SEC fans are either unwilling or unable to travel outside of the Atlanta footprint.
That truly changes everything and practically renders the discussion all but obsolete.
This post was edited on 3/15/14 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 3/15/14 at 12:54 pm to EKG
quote:
If it ever came down to Houston, I would think It would be in the Toyota Center (home of the Rockets), not in Reliant Stadium.
Toyota Center holds 18K
Georgia Dome holds 70K (for basketball)
In 2011 the Georgia Dome drew about 200K. How are you getting 200K numbers from Toyota Center? They call the BBN the "blue mist" for a reason. Nashville can draw 100K+ from BBN and Atlanta can draw excellent numbers as well. No way Houston draws 100K from BBN.
quote:
I honestly don't have a clue about who would come from where; but perhaps expanding the tourney site would help with marketing, as well as to pull fans from places other than just UK?
Now you get the understanding of the real issue. If the SEC could sell M basketball without UK they would have already done so. If you can figure out that marketing and make it work you would have a better job than just selling seats in the SEC. Some global company would already have you on their payroll. UT and TAMU both have NC's for W basketball but when it comes to traveling fans UT blows the doors off TAMU. It is what it is.
23,706 showed up this year for Kentucky vs Duke. While that may seem small for a Men's game it is in the Top 5 or Top 10 in a Women's game, and this was a Women's game. Do you see roughly 24,000 attending a regular season non conference game for TAMU? Kentucky may not have the cache Tennessee does when it comes to the women, but they have a rabid enough fan base to sell tickets anyway.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:00 pm to Govt Tide
quote:
The problem for those of you that hate Hoover is how well attended the tournament has been even when Alabama wasn't in it.
quote:
That and the fact that the championship game keeps selling out despite no in state team playing in it for the last few years.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:04 pm to Cheese Grits
Oh, Reliant Stadium is more than capable of hosting a hoops tourney--I wasn't suggesting otherwise. But maybe demand for 70,000 seats just isn't there right now, and a hoops venue may be a better option--temporarily, anyway?
Right now? Very doubtful. But post-season tourneys aren't the same beast as regular season OOC games. And more teams are involved than just A&M. Your point is taken, though; and I'd never argue otherwise: Absolutely, UK has a larger basketball following than we do--exponentially.
If Atlanta was selling out these games, this discussion would seem much more pointless. But sometimes it's effective to shake things up a little? Just a thought.
quote:
Do you see roughly 24,000 attending a regular season non conference game for TAMU?
Right now? Very doubtful. But post-season tourneys aren't the same beast as regular season OOC games. And more teams are involved than just A&M. Your point is taken, though; and I'd never argue otherwise: Absolutely, UK has a larger basketball following than we do--exponentially.
If Atlanta was selling out these games, this discussion would seem much more pointless. But sometimes it's effective to shake things up a little? Just a thought.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:07 pm to CrazyTigerFan
I would agree with you if you were arguing in favor of Memphis but I'm not buying your logic for Shreveport. Hoover is more convenient to Mississippi State and Ole Miss than Shreveport. New Orleans is an easy drive to Hoover not to mention 9 more SEC fanbases. In essence your argument for Shreveport would be to appease LSU and Arkansas fans and no one else.
Memphis is a much much much better argument and the only location with a better combination of proximity to biggest fanbases, better facility, and entertainment options than Hoover.
Memphis is a much much much better argument and the only location with a better combination of proximity to biggest fanbases, better facility, and entertainment options than Hoover.
This post was edited on 3/15/14 at 1:10 pm
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:21 pm to EKG
quote:
Reliant Stadium is more than capable of hosting a hoops tourney
Interesting would be if Toyota could sell out for the women? There TAMU has a chance, but Nashville hits 3 in Vanderbilt, Tennessee, and Kentucky.
quote:
Right now? Very doubtful. But post-season tourneys aren't the same beast as regular season OOC games.
The regular season is an indication of potential to travel in the post season. I was at the Final Four between Notre Dame and Texas A&M. The venue was about 90% ND and maybe 10% TAMU and this was for the Championship Game. TAMU women can win, but they do not travel well. UK women have not been to a Final Four yet, but they travel better. KY and TN are just the basketball culture states in the SEC so their fans are more likely to hit the road for a game.
If you want to get the best feel for the value of any school in the SEC the most accurate seems to be talking with the street scalpers. They know the market better than all kinds of high priced consultants or marketing people. When it come to M basketball they seem unanimous in the big 4 of college basketball. UK, UNC, IU, and KU
quote:
If Atlanta was selling out these games, this discussion would seem much more pointless.
SEC basketball is probably 80% UK and 20% the other 13 teams. Until other schools show up, it will be more of the same. Gators win but they do not travel well and Arkansas travels well but has not won lately. UK does both so they dominate the market. The best venues are probably close to at least 1 team that wins and has the travel culture.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:22 pm to Govt Tide
Did anyone else see Slive's interview with Nokah?
He said he is wanting to turn the SEC tournament into like the SECCG and Hoover. They want to make it a destination, where you know where it will always be. I think if Nashville hammers these next few tournaments it will get put there indefinitley, unless the FF is in ATL or NOLA. SEC bylaws dictate that if the FF is there the SECT has to be there.
He said he is wanting to turn the SEC tournament into like the SECCG and Hoover. They want to make it a destination, where you know where it will always be. I think if Nashville hammers these next few tournaments it will get put there indefinitley, unless the FF is in ATL or NOLA. SEC bylaws dictate that if the FF is there the SECT has to be there.
This post was edited on 3/15/14 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:24 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
Gators win but they do not travel well
Geez, you can say that again.
Same with Tennessee (and they're close to Atlanta).
Tip-off at today's game:
Here's to brighter days ahead.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:28 pm to sms151t
quote:
I think if Nashville hammers these next few tournaments it will get put there indefinitley
Makes the most sense for WBB
Venue size is the only issue for the men (20K is much smaller than GA Dome)
quote:
SEC bylaws dictate that if the FF is there the SECT has to be there.
I am willing to bet UK had a hand in this bylaw. They like to play in a FF venue prior to the FF to make it more familiar.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:32 pm to EKG
quote:
Geez, you can say that again.
Same with Tennessee (and they're close to Atlanta).
Depends on how the ticket runs. If sold single game (UF vs UT) that looks terrible, but if sold by session it just means all those empty seats are held by the teams in the second game. Since UK is in the second game, this makes sense. Since the second game is Uk vs UGA, my guess is UK holds 90% of the total tickets as usual.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:37 pm to Cheese Grits
You know more about it than do I, by a mile.
Bottom line--regardless of how tix were bundled/sold--that looks just pitiful.
Bottom line--regardless of how tix were bundled/sold--that looks just pitiful.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 1:43 pm to EKG
quote:
Bottom line--regardless of how tix were bundled/sold--that looks just pitiful.
I agree, but most of that is changing the culture at Florida as anything else.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 2:06 pm to Govt Tide
quote:I said Shreveport or Memphis. This was without looking up numbers and just generalizing the map in my head. Looking at numbers, LSU, TA&M, and Missouri are the only ones which Shreveport is a faster trip (Memphis is actually a quicker trip for Arkansas), so go ahead and throw Shreveport out.
I would agree with you if you were arguing in favor of Memphis but I'm not buying your logic for Shreveport.
Based on Cheese Grits' argument about proximity to fanbases, Memphis is closer than Hoover for the top 6 baseball attendance fanbases. Hoover is a 4-minute-shorter for the top 7 baseball attendance fanbases, so if you assume that Florida fans will be driving six and a half hours for baseball then this is where the argument for Hoover over Memphis could be made.
After the top 7, Alabama and Auburn come in, which obviously shifts the average travel times. However, considering that both team's total attendance combined doesn't crack the top 5 for the league, we're probably at the point where Cheese Grits' argument kicks in and those fanbases can be disregarded, just as the non-UK and non-UT basketball fanbases can be disregarded.
ETA: These are just driving travel times. This is not addressing the issue of airport access and media access (which was made by another poster in regards to the football championship), which I'm going to assume is greater in Memphis than in Birmingham.
Move the baseball tournament to Memphis.
This post was edited on 3/15/14 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 3/15/14 at 2:19 pm to Crowknowsbest
quote:
I really don't understand why people want to change it. The football championship is currently held in the city with the most diverse and strong SEC alumni population in the country. This city also has the biggest airport in the country, making travel as easy as possible for as many people as possible. The current setup has created by far the most successful conference championship game in the country, and to top it off, Atlanta is building a brand new stadium that will be ready in a few years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Also, as has already been mentioned, if we start rotating it out of Atlanta, the ACC will take the SEC's place and won't let go. We'll never be able to have it there again.
Exactly this. There is no good reason to move and a multitude of good reasons to keep it where it is.
Except one thing, Hartsfield is the busiest airport in the WORLD, not just the US.
This post was edited on 3/15/14 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 3/15/14 at 2:24 pm to Nicolae
But many people in this thread have already stated that SEC fans don't/won't fly to games; they have to drive.
So I don't think the airport reason is a sound one.
(not saying there don't exist other reasons to keep it in ATL)
So I don't think the airport reason is a sound one.
(not saying there don't exist other reasons to keep it in ATL)
This post was edited on 3/15/14 at 2:26 pm
Posted on 3/15/14 at 2:26 pm to EKG
One of the reasons that baseball is still in Hoover is the abundance of RV parking by the Hoover Met. That's not available in Memphis.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 2:43 pm to EKG
that is kinda pathetic really.
Florida has had enough basketball success to build up better support than that. There are times when I think BD would be dissatisfied with the level of appreciation for his teams and his levels of success.
I suppose moving him to a UCLA carries with it additional pressures but an empty stadium is not OK when the gators are that good.
Posted on 3/15/14 at 2:44 pm to EKG
quote:
But many people in this thread have already stated that SEC fans don't/won't fly to games; they have to drive.
So I don't think the airport reason is a sound one.
Some fly, most drive. Media and corporate folks fly tho.
The equation is the addition of the 2, not the dominance of either.
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