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re: SIAP: Paul Bryant Jr's Bank Tie That Binds UA BOT
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:44 pm to Tuscaloosa
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:44 pm to Tuscaloosa
quote:
We actually don't usually call it a "family" at all.
That's Auburn's schtick.
That's right.....it's called The Syndicate.....
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Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:47 pm to 14&Counting
Again, I respectfully disagree about athletics, but I think that is because my definition of a successful program for an urban university is so much less than an SEC caliber school.
I think a 20k stadium in C-USA would have had enough support to survive, but it is really a moot point at this time. Also, I think Birmingham shares a lot of the blame for this. If they had donated land and helped offset a stadium (something cities often do to increase revenues) instead of digging their heels in about a dome that will never happen, the program would have had a much better shot, esp with a coach like Clark at the helm. There are tons of talented players within Bhm city schools and surrounding areas who have never really been coached up on the fundamentals who could shine if given the opportunity.
I also want to say thanks for a good discussion that did not include shooting birds or calling someone retarded!
I think a 20k stadium in C-USA would have had enough support to survive, but it is really a moot point at this time. Also, I think Birmingham shares a lot of the blame for this. If they had donated land and helped offset a stadium (something cities often do to increase revenues) instead of digging their heels in about a dome that will never happen, the program would have had a much better shot, esp with a coach like Clark at the helm. There are tons of talented players within Bhm city schools and surrounding areas who have never really been coached up on the fundamentals who could shine if given the opportunity.
I also want to say thanks for a good discussion that did not include shooting birds or calling someone retarded!
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:47 pm to jatebe
Remember the interactive CFB fan map circulating a few days ago?
Zoom in and click on the B'ham area and see how much UAB is supported there.
UAB football with about 3% to 4% support in their own city. Even LSU has more support in one area of B'ham.
Zoom in and click on the B'ham area and see how much UAB is supported there.
UAB football with about 3% to 4% support in their own city. Even LSU has more support in one area of B'ham.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:51 pm to jatebe
All the athletic programs at UAB lose money right now. Football lost the least for how much was spent. If you're trying to save an athletic department money, why would you cut one of the two potential men's revenue sports and then add a non revenue track team and a non revenue swimming team to make up for the title 9 issues? Not to mention you're going to lose an extra 2-3 million a year for losing your conference affiliation. Yeah, that is genius.
That makes no sense and everyone here knows it.
You want to make it about academics as a strawman argument, but it has zero to do with academics. It also has zero to do with how terribly this entire thing was handled. Why is the UAB President still in place at UAB after receiving no confidence votes from:
1. Faculty
2. Undergrad Students
3. Grad Students
4. UAB National Alumni Society
Why is he still there after one of the biggest PR blunder's in Alabama's history? Why are Alabama taxpayers paying nearly a million dollars for multiple public relations firms over this football situation? We just supposedly cut UAB's football team due to the money not being there, but we have the money to pay PR firms and run propaganda commercial ads on TV.
This is a lot bigger than UAB having a freaking football team.
That makes no sense and everyone here knows it.
You want to make it about academics as a strawman argument, but it has zero to do with academics. It also has zero to do with how terribly this entire thing was handled. Why is the UAB President still in place at UAB after receiving no confidence votes from:
1. Faculty
2. Undergrad Students
3. Grad Students
4. UAB National Alumni Society
Why is he still there after one of the biggest PR blunder's in Alabama's history? Why are Alabama taxpayers paying nearly a million dollars for multiple public relations firms over this football situation? We just supposedly cut UAB's football team due to the money not being there, but we have the money to pay PR firms and run propaganda commercial ads on TV.
This is a lot bigger than UAB having a freaking football team.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:51 pm to higgs_boson
quote:
I think Birmingham shares a lot of the blame for this.
The city/taxpayer was one of UAB's biggest ticket buyers.
UAB should have hitched its wagon to the dome project instead of rattling its tin cup at the board like an angry beggar. The dome, with UAB as an anchor tenant, would have been a perfect solution for all involved.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:54 pm to dswear
quote:
300$ million? Did you read those numbers on some random internet message board and start spouting that crap off as truth? Anyone can google the football revenue and expenses in about 4 seconds.
UA's School of Medicine at UAB subsidizes the football program to get it even close to breaking even.
Take a look at UAB's financial filings and you'll see exactly what a black hole that program is. On a run-rate basis over the last five years, it's more like a $60 million loss which would be $300 million over 25 years before extra student fees.
ETA: Over 65% of the revenue was subsidies from the University and student fees. That's not football revenue. That's just taking money from other areas and calling it revenue.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:55 pm to higgs_boson
quote:You are an Auburn alum/fan on here, living in PA......Why are you so interested in UAB? It seems you have a vested interest in UAB, the football program, and current president of UAB. WHY?
higgs_boson
I live less than 5 miles from AUM campus, in east Montgomery ~ I couldn't tell the name of the AUM President if you held a gun to my head.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:56 pm to Tuscaloosa
That would be the UAB athletic program, not the UAB football program. UAB football expenses have never even exceeded 9 million in a single year.
This only furthers my point to: Why would you cut a football program if your athletic program as a whole is bleeding money? Most would get out of athletics entirely or invest heavily into the football program so it could fund other programs. No investment into fooball = you're going to be subsidizing all your other athletic programs. And that is what happened at UAB.
This only furthers my point to: Why would you cut a football program if your athletic program as a whole is bleeding money? Most would get out of athletics entirely or invest heavily into the football program so it could fund other programs. No investment into fooball = you're going to be subsidizing all your other athletic programs. And that is what happened at UAB.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:57 pm to higgs_boson
quote:
Again, I respectfully disagree about athletics, but I think that is because my definition of a successful program for an urban university is so much less than an SEC caliber school.
I understand and you are probably right.
I just think it's a matter of "realpolitik". I have said this in other threads on the subject. When it comes to football within the University of Alabama system, there is one and only one program that matters and you know which one that is...the program in Tuscaloosa is sacrosanct and it will not be interfered with in any manner.
You would have a better chance at convincing the Pope and the College of Cardinals to support a new version of Christianity than you would convincing PBJr and the BOT to support another brand of football within the Alabama system. It's just the way it is.....
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:58 pm to Old Hellen Yeller
quote:
UAB should have hitched its wagon to the dome project instead of rattling its tin cup at the board like an angry beggar. The dome, with UAB as an anchor tenant, would have been a perfect solution for all involved.
Dome has never and will never likely have support it needs. UAB has done a tremendous job as a partner to Birmingham, getting heavily involved in the local schools offering scholarships for city kids, helping to innovate and renovate with things like the Woodlawn Project, buying vacant or decrepit lots in the area when BHM needed cash infusions... the list goes on and on.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:59 pm to Tuscaloosa
Subsidies are a normal thing for college athletics. Just because Alabama doesn't have to subsidize anymore does not make it any less of a norm for 95% of other college programs. Another fact is: Very little of UAB student fees go to athletics. That's not a norm at most peer colleges to UAB. There is your reason why the athletic program needs institutional subsidies along with the available student fees.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:01 pm to dswear
Why are the supporters of UAB football so angry at the UA Board of Trustees when all they had to do was buy tickets to the games?
Seems like a simple solution to me. Maybe the board would have cared more about what the "UAB fans" had to say and been willing to invest more if there were more than 9,000 people sitting in the stadium on Saturdays. Why invest in something that nobody (relatively speaking) supports?
I guess it's easier to sit at home on your arse and play the victim card and blame other people for your problems.
Seems like a simple solution to me. Maybe the board would have cared more about what the "UAB fans" had to say and been willing to invest more if there were more than 9,000 people sitting in the stadium on Saturdays. Why invest in something that nobody (relatively speaking) supports?
I guess it's easier to sit at home on your arse and play the victim card and blame other people for your problems.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 1:04 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:02 pm to RT1941
quote:
You are an Auburn alum/fan on here, living in PA......Why are you so interested in UAB? It seems you have a vested interest in UAB, the football program, and current president of UAB. WHY?
Fair point. I worked at UAB, my wife was a professor there, my father received his masters from UAB. I spent six months going to the UAB burn clinic as they were able to save the fingers on my hand, while the first hospital had wanted to amputate them. I taught in Birmingham for more than a decade and can say, UAB was the biggest asset/supporter to the kids in need at my school, from sponsoring robotics, providing volunteer athletic coaches, offering scholarships to kids who passed three or more AP exams and providing student volunteers to help on a wide range of issues.
I will always support UAB for these reasons no matter where I live.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:09 pm to Tuscaloosa
Nope. Blaming fans for not buying tickets because YOU (board/UAB administration) are running a program poorly is not the answer. People support winners. People also support things when they know where their money is going. In regards to UAB football, you never knew if the money was going anywhere.
UAB athletics has zero athletic debt in the past 5 years. Only program in FBS that can say that. UAB football has never had a facility investment in it's 25 year existence. Ever. Nothing.
UAB athletic donations dropped by half once Neil Callaway was forced down UAB's throat after the Jimbo Fisher and Sullivan debacle in late 2006. You'll notice a nice ticket sale decline by 10-20% pretty much every year following Neil Callaway's hire over a 5-10 year period. Neil Callaway was given a contract extension by the board after going 11-25 in his first 3 years. Think about that. Ticket sales and attendance went up in 2014 after the Bill Clark hire, but apparently the decision to cut UAB's program had already been decided.
If you try really hard to run off fans of a program for 10-15 years instead of trying to build a fanbase, you will probably succeed.
UA football wouldn't be near where it is now if the UA Board had not pushed a huge fundraising drive and a whole bunch of money into that program in the early 2000s. Imagine what your program would look like if you weren't allowed to make your own hires, invest anything into facilities, and you were getting left behind repeatedly in the conference affiliation game due to this. It wouldn't be fun to go to games.
Investment = you win games. If you don't make that investment, you don't win and people don't come to games. That's how it works.
UAB athletics has zero athletic debt in the past 5 years. Only program in FBS that can say that. UAB football has never had a facility investment in it's 25 year existence. Ever. Nothing.
UAB athletic donations dropped by half once Neil Callaway was forced down UAB's throat after the Jimbo Fisher and Sullivan debacle in late 2006. You'll notice a nice ticket sale decline by 10-20% pretty much every year following Neil Callaway's hire over a 5-10 year period. Neil Callaway was given a contract extension by the board after going 11-25 in his first 3 years. Think about that. Ticket sales and attendance went up in 2014 after the Bill Clark hire, but apparently the decision to cut UAB's program had already been decided.
If you try really hard to run off fans of a program for 10-15 years instead of trying to build a fanbase, you will probably succeed.
UA football wouldn't be near where it is now if the UA Board had not pushed a huge fundraising drive and a whole bunch of money into that program in the early 2000s. Imagine what your program would look like if you weren't allowed to make your own hires, invest anything into facilities, and you were getting left behind repeatedly in the conference affiliation game due to this. It wouldn't be fun to go to games.
Investment = you win games. If you don't make that investment, you don't win and people don't come to games. That's how it works.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:11 pm to FairhopeTider
quote:
Nobody in the Alabama media cared when Bobby Lowder stacked the Colonial Board with people in his network.
Wait?
Did you just say that?
You're joking, right?
Bobby Lowder was pictured as Darth fricking Vader in the Bama (and ultimately in the national) media from the 1980's through the mid-2000's.
You must have been drunk then.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:15 pm to Tuscaloosa
And I'm not sure what game or when that top picture was, but I'm assuming between 2007-2013. The bottom picture was maybe game this year I believe and it was about a 18,000-20,000 person crowd with most people on the UAB side which is the norm/above average for most non power conference teams. Legion Field holds over 70,000 people. You put any non P5 program in Legion Field and it is going to look empty as can be. Only 1 or 2 non P5 programs out of 60+ even average 40,000 people to games.You could put a lot of smaller power conference teams in Legion Field and it would still look empty. Most football programs are not the SEC.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:21 pm to dswear
All I'm seeing is a whole lot of dissembling and a lot of whining from fans who admittedly didn't care about the football program until it was taken away.
You can try to scapegoat all you want.
The bottom line is that the people of Birmingham, UAB Alums, and the majority of the students didn't support the football program - even in a "good year" like 2014.
$4.60
That's how much money UAB generated for each fan that attended their games.
That's because the majority of the people who attended were sitting in seats they didn't pay for because they literally had to GIVE AWAY tickets to beg people to show up.
It's your fault.
Not UA's. Not the BOT. Not anyone else.
You can try to scapegoat all you want.
The bottom line is that the people of Birmingham, UAB Alums, and the majority of the students didn't support the football program - even in a "good year" like 2014.
$4.60
That's how much money UAB generated for each fan that attended their games.
That's because the majority of the people who attended were sitting in seats they didn't pay for because they literally had to GIVE AWAY tickets to beg people to show up.
It's your fault.
Not UA's. Not the BOT. Not anyone else.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:23 pm to jbond
No one answered, so asking again.
quote:
Serious question: How does several members having a vested interest in the success of a bank introduce a conflict of interest with respect to the treatment of UAB or UAH?
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:24 pm to Tuscaloosa
Yeah, it's UAB fans fault that they weren't allowed standard mid major FBS facilities. Yeah, UAB fans blocked their own hires. Yeah, UAB fans threatened to shut down their own program. Yeah, UAB fans blocked their own donations. Yeah, okay. It was the fans. Nothing to see here guys. There is no conflict of interest at all going on in the Alabama system.
You know the University of Alabama now has a billion dollars of debt they have accumulated the past 10 years alone? 1,000,000,000.
But yeah, UAB spending a few million in bonds on some football projects to make their football program actually sustainable? Nah, man. Out of the question. Too much money. Blame the fan support.
You know the University of Alabama now has a billion dollars of debt they have accumulated the past 10 years alone? 1,000,000,000.
But yeah, UAB spending a few million in bonds on some football projects to make their football program actually sustainable? Nah, man. Out of the question. Too much money. Blame the fan support.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:27 pm to dswear
quote:
Blame the fan support.
That's literally the only thing to blame. Stop scapegoating.
If UAB was putting 35,000 people in the stands every single week, do you think the BOT would have had anything to say?
$4.60 per person in revenue.
There's nothing you can say that can make that okay. Blame yourself.
Hell, probably half the student body at UAB spent their weekends in Tuscaloosa or Auburn.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 1:29 pm
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