Started By
Message
re: Offenses evolved to score more points. Defenses haven't evolved to stop them.
Posted on 1/17/15 at 8:00 pm to TigerBornTigerBred
Posted on 1/17/15 at 8:00 pm to TigerBornTigerBred
quote:
The Seattle Seahawks is the only football team that can play defense.
They haven't played anyone that has avgd more than ~66-67 plays/game.
Can't really use the NFL to make an argument about CFB.
0
Posted on 1/17/15 at 8:02 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
So the offenses found ways to exploit the defenses. So they should shut it down?
There was a rule change a very few years ago that made the HUNH possible.
I do believe they will do something to allow the defense to substitute more often.
It's one thing to go fast, it's another to go fast to the line and act like meerkats for 25 seconds wile a play is decided on just so you can get a 5 yard penalty if the D tries to sub.
And Saban will go this route also. If that's what everyone wants football to be.
Posted on 1/17/15 at 8:03 pm to Henry Jones Jr
If the defense is ready before the offense is, does it get an advantage? No, because it's the offense that starts the play. The defense either has to be ready to play when the offense is or it has to wait on the offense. Do you see the difference?
Posted on 1/17/15 at 9:19 pm to Henry Jones Jr
Undo all of the pro-offense rule changes of the last 5 years and the HUNH will go away real quick. Them fast little dudes running around the field will slow the hell down when they know it's actually legal to hit them again.
Posted on 1/17/15 at 10:22 pm to Henry Jones Jr
You win the captain clueless award for January. And the competition is stiff.
Posted on 1/17/15 at 10:29 pm to Drewbie
Of course the offense dictates the flow of a game, hence the word. The D will catch up with schemes, hence the D arms race currently happening. The hunh is something new in its mainstream use, so naturally there will be a lag. The ones complaining have coaches that don't like to adapt, it's expected. It's just funny to hear words like "smash mouth" and "tough" thrown around by guys that say "it's no fair, they're going too fast".
This post was edited on 1/17/15 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 1/18/15 at 12:49 am to Henry Jones Jr
It's not creative it's an abuse of a rule change in 08. The rule was changed for the amount of time between plays. This shite about offenses and center hover over ball while getting their play from the sideline which prevents defenses from substituting was not the intent. So corrections are coming Or we will fake injuries like a mother 2 can play at bending intent of a rule. Ha ha.
Posted on 1/18/15 at 12:51 am to Henry Jones Jr
42-3
Posted on 1/18/15 at 1:58 am to Henry Jones Jr
Wrong, it's possible that with all the new "safety" rules that game fundamentally changes to where the balance permanently shifts to offense.
Football is a better sport when the offense and defense are on an equal footing trying to overcome each other. It makes for a healthier, richer sport.
It's POSSIBLE defenses evolve to keep up, but it's also possible that shootouts are the new normal, thanks to rules that neuter aggressive defensive play.
You've already seen this int he NFL. Passing records are falling right and left overa nd over the past 5-6 yeras in the NFL and it has everything to do with the rules and reffing. Defenses have to play much more passive, particularly in the passing game.
Many NFL teams don't even run the ball at all anymore. QB's having 40 attempts a game is common place.
So it's not just defenses being crippled, it's running games too.
I want real football, not arena football, throw every play, score a TD every possession.
Touchdowns are only exciting if they matter and if every team is scoring every time they don't even matter anymore.
It becomes like basketball, the last possession or two will decide every game.
Football is a better sport when the offense and defense are on an equal footing trying to overcome each other. It makes for a healthier, richer sport.
It's POSSIBLE defenses evolve to keep up, but it's also possible that shootouts are the new normal, thanks to rules that neuter aggressive defensive play.
You've already seen this int he NFL. Passing records are falling right and left overa nd over the past 5-6 yeras in the NFL and it has everything to do with the rules and reffing. Defenses have to play much more passive, particularly in the passing game.
Many NFL teams don't even run the ball at all anymore. QB's having 40 attempts a game is common place.
So it's not just defenses being crippled, it's running games too.
I want real football, not arena football, throw every play, score a TD every possession.
Touchdowns are only exciting if they matter and if every team is scoring every time they don't even matter anymore.
It becomes like basketball, the last possession or two will decide every game.
Posted on 1/18/15 at 2:17 am to harmonics
quote:It's not just that. Saw someone break down a few OSU plays. QB option to hand it off the RB up the middle(linebackers suck in), WR out to the left is sprinting over for a possible reverse thing(defense scrambles to their left once they realize it), WR out wide to the right runs 10 yard out and cuts it to the middle. Meanwhile, a WR or TE who was in the slot to the right sorta fakes a block and runs a slant behind the linebackers(who are completely shitting their pants at this point) and is WIDE open with everyone but the safety running the wrong way.
Saban likes to mix it up. Sometimes they play man, sometimes zone. Sabans biggest problem is he likes to read the offense presnap and make adjustments with his defense. Can't really do that with up tempo.
The play was so complex. All I could think was "my god, how does a defense stop this shite?!"
This one might not be new or anything, I have no idea. But I love the play where the QB fakes a handoff to the right, then runs left with the option to take it or make a running throw to a WR who stays behind him to keep the lateral alive. DB has to decide whether to go get the QB or stay out wide, all the while another WR is readying to pop his arse. The NC game was the first time I've seen a defense blow it up. It's usually a guaranteed 7+ yards.
Saban is great at dissecting offenses presnap. But with so many options on any given play, he can only do so much.
This post was edited on 1/18/15 at 2:21 am
Posted on 1/18/15 at 2:29 am to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Offenses are just as much a part of the game as defenses are. So stop saying "offense is killing football" or "The HUNH is ruining football" because they got creative and left defenses in the dust.
Why don't you tell your lazy defensive coordinators to stop bitching about how the HUNH is no fair and make them find ways to stop it. Sure it's hard to defend, but that's your DCs fault for not finding ways to stop it.
Since the offense has been given so many advantages over the years and quarterbacks are becoming more and more involved in the running game maybe the defense should be allowed to sub in a extra player anytime the offense goes no huddle... seems fair to me. But if you wanna watch basketball on a football field...
Honestly I'd rather just see the hurry up no huddle only be allowed during the final two minute offense. You'd only really ever run it when you were down or to score before the half. Teams wouldn't try to make it their overall package anymore so they wouldn't be as good at executing it... and football would get back to being what it originally was... lining up, getting set, and beating the guys across from you.
This post was edited on 1/18/15 at 2:31 am
Posted on 1/18/15 at 2:35 am to IAmReality
quote:This is exactly how I feel. Look, I'm not gonna bitch and call for rule changes to help my favorite team win more. They can get em an Auburn or Oregon type offense if that's the route they wanna take. But dammit, I don't like this type of football as much.
Football is a better sport when the offense and defense are on an equal footing trying to overcome each other. It makes for a healthier, richer sport.
And where the game is, right now, isn't that bad. I could easily live with it. I am however, a bit concerned with it moving forward over the next 30 years. I fear that we won't recognize the game in the future.
It's not like it took 20 years for all these rule changes to get us here. It's been fairly rapid. I wish the powers at be would at least address things. Figure out what we all want the game to be, and rule it accordingly. If all these rule changes are hurting the game, then address them. If they want to keep making rules based on player safety and more important epic offense, then, well, frick.
Posted on 1/18/15 at 2:45 am to NATidefan
quote:Think that might be going too far. Offenses should be allowed to move as fast as humanly possible, IMO. But that should revolve around defenses being capable of always having the players on the field that they think they might need to stop the offense.
Honestly I'd rather just see the hurry up no huddle only be allowed during the final two minute offense. You'd only really ever run it when you were down or to score before the half. Teams wouldn't try to make it their overall package anymore so they wouldn't be as good at executing it... and football would get back to being what it originally was... lining up, getting set, and beating the guys across from you.
Ref execution right now seems all kinds of fricked up. At the very least, they HAVE to make sure they're in position and ready to judge a play before the ball is snapped. I mean, Jesus Christ. I'm not even sure how it's acceptable to any fan that refs aren't ready to make judgments at the snap. I might be blowing this up more than I should, but we've already solidified the fact that a QB can literally nudge a ref out of the way to snap the ball without penalty.
Posted on 1/18/15 at 2:56 am to ReauxlTide222
The refs should be allowed to dictate the pace of the game, much like the do in the NFL.
Posted on 1/18/15 at 3:06 am to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Think that might be going too far. Offenses should be allowed to move as fast as humanly possible, IMO. But that should revolve around defenses being capable of always having the players on the field that they think they might need to stop the offense.
Well, it's kinda tough to have both of those. The offense can use the same players and line up in a completely different formation that would require a different group of defenders to successfully stop them. With running QBs going 6'5 250 and running 4.5 40s it's even harder.
The defense has always been a step behind, but it didn't have to worry about the QB as much as it does now as far as running game, and it typically had more time to get it's right players in and get set.
The fact you can't sub unless the offense subs is probably the biggest issue... it's not that you can't get players on and off the field fast, it's that you aren't allowed to do it at all. And even if you could, you'd get caught subbing a player in and the ball being snapped while they are out of position.
Maybe once the center touches the ball the D should be allowed 5 seconds or so to sub players before the snap???
This post was edited on 1/18/15 at 3:07 am
Posted on 1/18/15 at 3:21 am to NATidefan
quote:
The fact you can't sub unless the offense subs is probably the biggest issue... it's not that you can't get players on and off the field fast, it's that you aren't allowed to do it at all.
That's straight up false. Defense can sub whenever it wants. They just have to be quick about it if the offense chooses not to. Too bad so sad if your coaching staff can't get their subs organized quickly enough.
Posted on 1/18/15 at 3:21 am to NATidefan
Part of the moving as fast has humanly possible should be just that...but there should be a human there to make it 100% certain that the defense has time to do what they need. Not saying the defense needs time to email the refs that "we're ready!" But for goodness sake let em do what they need to do to play football.
In a perfect world, this would include being able so sub when they want. Not asking for anyone to throw the defense a bone in an already tough situation. I legit think it's insane that the defense can't sub unless the offense does. Offenses are getting so fast that defenses not even being ready is a big problem in my eyes.
In a perfect world, this would include being able so sub when they want. Not asking for anyone to throw the defense a bone in an already tough situation. I legit think it's insane that the defense can't sub unless the offense does. Offenses are getting so fast that defenses not even being ready is a big problem in my eyes.
Posted on 1/18/15 at 3:54 am to Dr RC
quote:
Defense can sub whenever it wants
Sure it can, if it wants to get a flag for too many men on the field while one runs off and another runs on. Some of these offenses get up and on the ball and ready to go in less than 5 seconds easy... the field is 55 yards across... some of the fastest players run 4.5 40s and we aren't talking about the beef in the middle... you really think it's just a organization issue?
Posted on 1/18/15 at 3:58 am to ReauxlTide222
You guys need to refresh on your History 101 and watch some Wishbone offenses from the 60's and 70's. I'll go so far to admit that t.u.'s (bevo's) 1970 version was so damned orchestrated and choreographed that it's like ballet for big boys. That stuff was veritably unstoppable for like 20 years.
Notre Dame's Four Horsemen ran amok for a while and had to be shut down with ridiculously revolutionary rules changes. Since then everyone has had to just work to catch up.
Mame Tomato and Papa Tomato and Baby Tomato were walking down the street. All of the sudden Baby Tomato starts lagging behind. Papa Tomato goes back to Baby Tomato and squooshes him. Then he says, "ketchup."
Get it? Ketchup?
Notre Dame's Four Horsemen ran amok for a while and had to be shut down with ridiculously revolutionary rules changes. Since then everyone has had to just work to catch up.
Mame Tomato and Papa Tomato and Baby Tomato were walking down the street. All of the sudden Baby Tomato starts lagging behind. Papa Tomato goes back to Baby Tomato and squooshes him. Then he says, "ketchup."
Get it? Ketchup?
Posted on 1/18/15 at 4:01 am to NATidefan
quote:
College football
The substitution rule: Offenses can substitute whenever they want. Defenses can substitute whenever they have time.
The tempo rule: Fire when ready.
Exploitable? An offense that sets quickly can lock in the defense's lineup, thereby killing the same matchups over and over again all the way down the field until someone suffers a suspicious, dramatic injury or remembers what a time out is for.
Other concerns: Some claim to have injury concerns with fast-snapping offenses. But any safety argument against hurry-up football is an argument against football, so.
Pro football The substitution rule: Yes, there is one.
The tempo rule: An official stands over the ball like Colossus of Rhodes until the defense is good and ready. This is not done for safety reasons. Chip Kelly doesn't like it, as Mark Richt didn't like the SEC's similar rule when he arrived at Georgia after running the hurry-up at Florida State. And now look at Auburn! But, anyway, the NFL is slow.
Exploitable? Not especially.
Other concerns: Pro football is not extremely fun, but its players are well-compensated.
LINK
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News