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re: NIL Donor Fatigue

Posted on 3/11/24 at 9:38 am to
Posted by Dallaswho
Member since Dec 2023
840 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 9:38 am to
This is a lazy take. There are plenty of legitimate NIL opportunities out there that don’t involve just buying players and plenty of 5 star guys chasing those instead of a ransom. If someone wants to go out and just buy a guy with no commitment, that’s on them.
Posted by caliegeaux
Member since Aug 2004
10156 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 9:41 am to
even if regulated, it'll become the old way of doing things under the table again, so the haves will out pay\outbid\out-recruit the have-nots. but something definitely needs to be done to calm it down some.

eta: maybe if regulated, any breaking of the rules automatically qualifies you for some serious punishment, could possibly help. but big $$ donors break the rules anyway with no consequence because its their way of life.
This post was edited on 3/11/24 at 9:43 am
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
44849 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 9:43 am to
quote:

We watch because it is our school, not because of who is playing.


This is the part the cleat chasers will never understand.
Posted by bamameister
Right here, right now
Member since May 2016
14164 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 9:49 am to
Chaos and absolute failure are the only things that will hasten the NCAA's demise. They are truly tits on a bull.

The Superconferences are going to have to govern college football. Yes, as much as some hate change, more change is coming.
Posted by RT1941
Member since May 2007
30225 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 9:50 am to
How long will donors pour millions into collectives to buy temporary players who are under contract and can transfer at any time?

Are the few weeks of bragging rights because your team stole or flipped a prize recruit from a rival team worth millions a year?
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
4198 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 9:52 am to
The root cause is pay for play.

That's what's so disappointing about Tennessee having success with their lawsuit to make it acceptable to pay players to attend a school.

NIL on paper is fine. It's supposed to allow successful players to parlay their name/image/likeness into endorsement or advertising dollars.

But what happened in reality is many boosters created groups to pay recruits to attend their university. That was against NCAA rules on NIL, and THAT is what creates the problem. Reading the article, that's what turns off most of the donors.

The NCAA is losing that lawsuit, which means that pay to play is legal. It's a shame as if they had been allowed to enforce the pay to play rule, it would likely have solved most of the NIL issues and the money wouldn't be required from fans. Instead it would be able to work more as intended where businesses would pay athletes on college football teams who have a degree of fame (either locally or nationally depending on the business) to endorse products and make money based on their fame.
Posted by RT1941
Member since May 2007
30225 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:04 am to
quote:

The root cause is pay for play.

The unrestricted transfer portal is a major reason why pay for play erupted.

Bidding wars with agents in a feeding frenzy, parents looking for the biggest payout and kids transferring out if they don't get enough $$ or enough playing time to showcase their talents.
Posted by Dallaswho
Member since Dec 2023
840 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:07 am to
quote:

Instead it would be able to work more as intended where businesses would pay athletes on college football teams who have a degree of fame (either locally or nationally depending on the business) to endorse products and make money based on their fame.


This is why pay-for play can’t be completely banned. Local and regional companies obviously have to tie a players likeness to a university.
The idea is to make the relationships productive where the players have some sort of ownership and responsibility within their deals. This makes them a part of something bigger than themselves and keeps them out of the portal.
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
4198 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:11 am to
quote:

The unrestricted transfer portal is a major reason why pay for play erupted.

Bidding wars with agents in a feeding frenzy, parents looking for the biggest payout and kids transferring out if they don't get enough $$ or enough playing time to showcase their talents


I strongly disagree with this idea.

Unrestricted transfers actually make it less advisable to buy players if inducements to attend a school are not allowed in the contract (including "appearance" requirement that effectively make it impossible to keep the contract if you change schools).

If pay-for-play is regulated properly (which the NCAA was starting to do by coming down on Tennessee), giving a player a huge contract to come to your school would not happen BECAUSE the player could immediately transfer and keep the money.

Why pay that player to come to your school when he can pocket the money (sign the contract) and then IMMEDIATELY transfer to Alabama for on-field success while pulling money from Tennessee or LSU's NIL collectives.

The only reason that you CAN buy players is that the "inducement" restriction hadn't been enforced.

The transfer portal being unrestricted actually helps with preventing the purchase of players. It's not a contributing factor for it like you suggest. "Hidden" (they're not really hidden that much) requirements to attend a particular school were what made unlimited transfers not help reduce pay for play.

And again... Tennessee killed the regulation of that with their NCAA lawsuit. IT's really a shame they seem to have won.
Posted by caliegeaux
Member since Aug 2004
10156 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:19 am to
quote:

they couldn't afford food, but all the food in the $100M athletic facility is free.


its the equivalent of "free internet for all" and "free phones for all" which all know is not free and should be seen as a luxury that you earn. someone is paying for it. but in America, everyone has to have the same shite as the people with money. they were never hungry, they just couldn't go out and spend money on rims and hoes, so lets add on to what they're already getting for free so they can keep up with the jones'
Posted by nicholastiger
Member since Jan 2004
42589 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:21 am to
those paying want a return on that NIL investment, when they don't get a return they will stop investing in the college athlete
it's quite simple!
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
4198 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:32 am to
quote:

his is why pay-for play can’t be completely banned. Local and regional companies obviously have to tie a players likeness to a university.
The idea is to make the relationships productive where the players have some sort of ownership and responsibility within their deals. This makes them a part of something bigger than themselves and keeps them out of the portal.


As long as the rule prohibiting "inducements to attend a school" are not allowed in contracts, it would absolutely almost eliminate pay for play.

If the player can transfer without sitting out (which they can) and keep all their NIL deals (which they'd be able to if all language that requires a player to be at a school or live in the area the school is located in are removed from the contract), there'd be no point in signing players to long term contracts in order for them to attend the school.

In that scenario, Nico could sign the contract with Tennessee, then immediately transfer to Alabama and still get his 2 million dollars every year from his contract because it can't require him to attend Tennessee.

If that were the case, who would pay players to attend their school? Nobody would. They'd still pay guys who had success and were likely to remain at the school for the remainder of the contract, but they'd be taking risks with big contracts over multiple years as they'd still have to pay if the player transferred.

It's all academic now as the courts are basically ruling that no regulation on NIL is allowed other than by actual laws at the state or national level. Even some of the state laws may be struck down if taken to court.
Posted by TheTideMustRoll
Birmingham, AL
Member since Dec 2009
8906 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:37 am to
quote:

Unrestricted transfers actually make it less advisable to buy players if inducements to attend a school are not allowed in the contract (including "appearance" requirement that effectively make it impossible to keep the contract if you change schools).


The problem is that, as per NCAA guidelines, a) the contract is not allowed to specify that the money is tied to the athlete playing for any particular school, and b) the money cannot come directly from the school. And even without the NCAA stipulating these things, the schools themselves would still abide by them because as soon as a player signs a document stating that they are receiving money to play for a particular school, it becomes very difficult to defend against the notion that they are therefore an employee of that school, and the schools are very very keen on that not being the case for a variety of money-related reasons.

Look at the NFL, since that seems to be the model towards which we are heading. The league is legally allowed to operate as a monopoly because the sport simply does not work as a product if the market for talent is free. Players don't have the option to transfer at will, they are under contract, and teams are not allowed to employ players outside the league's oversight. Salaries are capped to encourage league competitiveness overall. Imagine if the market for talent was free and teams could buy any player at any time for any amount. You'd have a handful of big-market teams that would outspend everyone else, and the remainder of the league would effectively become farm teams for them. The product as a whole would suffer.

The NCAA is supposed to be that governing body for college football, but it does not have the legal sanction to operate as a monopoly, and therefore it is now being struck down by the courts when it tries to govern pay-for-play. Some entity - and at this point it is unlikely to be the NCAA - needs to begin the process of setting itself, and the teams that it oversees, up using the same model as the NFL to govern the market for talent. Declaring the players to be employees of the universities is the first step down this path. The schools may not want this but it is going to happen, and once it does I believe the rest of the pieces will start to fall into place to bring some sanity back to the system.

And just by the by, I say all of this as someone who is not much of a fan of the NFL or pro sports generally. But if the courts are going to essentially declare amateur sports to be illegal, as they have done, then there really isn't any other option than to professionalize.
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
4198 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:51 am to
quote:

The problem is that, as per NCAA guidelines, a) the contract is not allowed to specify that the money is tied to the athlete playing for any particular school, and b) the money cannot come directly from the school.


The actual bylaws that have the rules for NIL say that any "inducement" to attend a school in a NIL contract is not allowed. The school is required to go over their players NIL deals and if they've signed such a contract, the school is required to suspend them. The player keeps the contract and gets the money, they just can't play football. If they're allowed to play, the school was subject to sanctions.

Part of their investigation of Tennessee is if parts of contracts that their players had "induced" them to attend or remain at Tennessee in order to keep the NIL deal. Rumors were that included excessive appearance requirements that couldn't be met if a player transferred.

We're headed to a much weirder system than the NFL. Players will be paid to attend a school directly by boosters (under NIL, even though it has nothing to do with name, image or likeness). But the players will be able to break those contracts and turn themselves into free agents at any point they want to.

So if Nico plays balls out next season, he can keep the 4 million he'll have already earned from UT, break the contract and become a free agent (giving up the 4 million he's due the next 2 seasons) then sign with Alabama for 5 million a year.

You can't even really write the contracts to prevent that as general contract law makes it very hard to claw back money already "earned", and the fact it's under a fake NIL umbrella makes it hard to use non-compete type language to prevent the player from getting a new contract (his Tennessee deal might be pretending to be a car dealership NIL deal where Bama's might be for a private jet company or a trading card company).

None of this gets fixed by having schools directly pay salaries. Boosters will still be able to use NIL to get around any kind of salary restrictions the NCAA (or it's successor) puts in place.

Boosters aren't a thing in the NFL. But rich guys who want to see their college football team win and are willing to shell out money to do so exist at the college level and won't go away for a long time even if you try to change college to a NFL model.
This post was edited on 3/11/24 at 10:54 am
Posted by Opry
Member since Oct 2023
2023 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 10:58 am to
Screw communist universities and the minor league NFL system they are trying to run for profit that allow the inmates to run the asylum.
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 11:05 am to
quote:

it will allow the sport to survive.

At this point, who cares?

I mean, I remember when conference championships meant something. Now conferences themselves hardly mean anything. It's just not college football anymore.

Corporations have taken over the stadiums. Commercials have taken over the games. Money has taken over the players. With the 12, soon to be 16, team playoffs, and conference 'realignment' ignoring traditional regional matchups, the game is practically unrecognizable to those who grew up watching during the poll/bowl era.
Posted by TheTideMustRoll
Birmingham, AL
Member since Dec 2009
8906 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 11:08 am to
quote:

None of this gets fixed by having schools directly pay salaries.


Yes it does, if those salaries are attached to contracts that require the player to play for a particular school, and players have to honor them in order to play. I'm sure there are plenty of Texas oil tycoons who would be willing to pay big money to get the Cowboys a Super Bowl, but they can't because of the way the NFL governs the talent market. Even if they were willing to pay Patrick Mahomes eleventy million dollars outside of and above his salary to come play for Dallas, it wouldn't matter. He can only play where his contract says he can. That's what college football needs.
Posted by WildTchoupitoulas
Member since Jan 2010
44071 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 11:11 am to
quote:

require the player to play for a particular school

They can't require an athlete pass classes. What happens when they fail out?
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
4198 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 11:16 am to
quote:

I'm sure there are plenty of Texas oil tycoons who would be willing to pay big money to get the Cowboys a Super Bowl, but they can't because of the way the NFL governs the talent market.


Simply not true.

There's no laws or NFL rules that prevent an oil tycoon in Texas from telling every free agent the Cowboys want that if they sign for the minimum with the cowboys, they also get a 30 million dollar a year endorsement contract with their oil company. The NFL has no restrictions on endorsement contracts.

It doesn't happen because they don't care enough about the cowboys to do that. NFL fandom doesn't work that way.

But those same guys would consider doing something similar for Texas or Texas A&M (depending on where they went to school). College boosters are odd that way.

Every college player effectively is a free agent every year. Even with salaries, they all come in as free agents. A draft is never going to work legally for college football, especially since many or most would be minors. I was still 17 when I started my freshman year at UGA due to my birthday dictating when I started school, and a draft would have to happen much earlier than that.

Posted by Chad4Bama
Member since Sep 2020
5684 posts
Posted on 3/11/24 at 11:25 am to
quote:

Now that we live in an idiocracy, though, everyone gets all up in their feels about how unfair it is that prima donna athletes aren't allowed to transfer whenever they want, and so they are tearing down the system to benefit the poor players.



Your post nailed it.

2020 and the push for "equity" has shite all over everything in this country ever since...aided by courts and politicians.
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