re: Nick Saban: "Jonathan Taylor did everything we asked him to do"

You still don't get it. And I really don't want to keep re-explaining shite. But I will say that Saban doesn't have the ability to incarcerate someone, so he can be a little more punitive with his decisions. And also, it's a judges job to decide on second chances. It's not Sabans. He's a football coach.

I see the good and bad of letting guys have multiple chances. It's not cut and dry, black and white. It's defintely gray.

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I see the good and bad of letting guys have multiple chances. It's not cut and dry, black and white. It's defintely gray.

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This is important to remember.

If the Taylor thing had worked out and he became some beacon of light for the University who owned his past and became a great person - people would praise Saban for his discernment and ability to judge character.

Since it didn't, he's a villain who made a selfish decision.

I'll explain it one more time.

It didn't.

It flat out didn't. And in most cases with a crime like DV, it will happen again. That is a fact. Plenty of other players deserve second chances for various crimes or mistakes they've made. But a quick google search would have shown Saban that this was a bad idea. You really think this was about Taylor and second chances and not about winning? If you really think that, then I'm sorry, but I'm done debating with you.

We can play hypotheticals all day but at the end of the day it happened the way it did. There is no room for hypotheticals in a debate where facts have been presented.

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I thibk it's black and white when it involves domestic violence,

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I disagree. Some cases are black and white and some are not.

Ray Rice would be a clear black and white case.

My best friend from high school got into a heated argument with his fiance at the time. She slapped him in the face and scratched his arms as he was trying to walk away from her. The commotion caused the neighbors to call the cops on them. Cops arrive, ask both of them about the situation, and my friend was labeled the "victim of a domestic violence dispute". Because he had scratches on his arms and he never touched her. Seems kinda petty to me, but she was charged with domestic violence and hauled off.

How about a situation that happened to a co-worker and almost cost him his job two years ago... heated argument leads to this woman slapping him. His reaction is to grab her wrists as she swings at him. He leaves a mark on her wrist, and she falls down in the process. Police show up. He gets pegged with a DV charge because he left marks on her - even though he wasn't the aggressor. Charges were dropped when she gave a statement about the incident in his defense.

Every case is different.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad notion to have believed anger management, psychiatric evaluation, and community service could help this kid turn his life around.

Though it wasn't selfless by Saban (he was wanting a football player out of it), is this kid better off being shunned from society (and likely continuing to do this) or helped?

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Every case is different.

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OK. In this case, Taylor is facing felony charges for punching and choking his girlfriend.

I tend to agree that he didn't deserve a second chance unless he was cleared, which he hasn't been.

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It was about getting the team better. Just like every other decision Nick Saban makes on a daily basis. You think if Saban knew this kid would continue to hit women he would have let him on the team? He gave a kid a chance. It failed miserably for both parties.

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Best summary of where things stand that I've seen so far.

It's easy to throw rocks after the fact.

It's not up to a football coach to change people. He's not educated to do that. There are literally thousands of people who have doctorates who are tasked with that responsibility. Football coaches should coach football, an make sure the players they bring in represent the school in an upstanding way.

Again, would Saban allow his daughter to date someone with a history of DV? Wpuld he try to council that young man and get him help?

Idk. But I can take a pretty good guess.

This was about winning and masked with "second chances". It's an issue at every major program. Successful coaches sacrifice morals for wins because they don't answer to anyone.

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I put tweets from an Alabama writer in the OP. I try not to look at AL.com, and wasn't even aware they had additional quotes. It's not a big deal.

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Come on, man.

It wouldn't have taken any effort at all to find the rest of Saban's quotes - whether from Twitter or any other source not named AL.com.