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re: Meltdown time. Cam and Hootie special edition
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:15 am to SeekGreatness
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:15 am to SeekGreatness
quote:
It's not so much that as it is the two guys that were actually in the car in a closed park (with which I am familiar) at night, with a stolen gun...are we seriously having this discussion?
Maybe the cops screwed up the case. Maybe they did it on purpose. Maybe there wasn't enough evidence. My point is that where there is smoke there is fire. You are living in a fantasy if you think otherwise.
Maybe your own desires cloud your judgement, but like I said...I don't care if the guys play.
I have no desires in the matter, personally. I'm just interested in the intensity of the blowback that suggests the reason given -- which is a cornerstone of our legal system and not an obscure technicality - can't be valid in this particular case.
(The "on purpose" angle supposes that 1) a Louisiana cop had a vested interest in protecting Bama players, even local ones; and 2) s/he knew their identities before s/he initiated the search. Seems iffy.)
Edit: And, yes, I understood what the thrust of your comment was, and I get that. But your reply touches on whether they're supporting felons or not rather than just berating them for getting so excited about football. It's a moot issue if no actual foundation for charges can be established.
This post was edited on 6/21/16 at 1:20 am
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Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:19 am to randomways
My only point with the "maybes" was to illustrate that there are innumerable possibilities and "angles," but the facts are that these two were in a car, in a closed park, at night, with a stolen gun and drugs.
Edit: Les got rid of superstar QB Ryan Perriloux for FAR less, setting back the LSU QB situation for years.
Edit: Les got rid of superstar QB Ryan Perriloux for FAR less, setting back the LSU QB situation for years.
This post was edited on 6/21/16 at 1:24 am
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:23 am to SeekGreatness
quote:
My only point with the "maybes" was to illustrate that there are innumerable possibilities and "angles," but the facts are that these two were in a car, in a closed park, at night, with a stolen gun and drugs.
I added to my reply, in case that clarifies anything. The drugs issue doesn't matter to me in the least -- I wholeheartedly endorse legalizing pot and think the War on Drugs has been a failure and a social ill of the highest magnitude -- but the stolen gun issue is certainly worth looking at. But without a valid investigation, there's no way to establish who stole it, which makes it a moot point again. If it was one of the other passengers, what would be the ethics of getting upset that the Bama player wasn't jailed over it? It could have been him, of course, but there's no foundation for that assumption other than the "smoke/fire" principle you raise...which, by itself, is a terrible principle both in legal and journalistic arenas. "Smoke/fire," I daresay, has been responsible for more injustice than actual malice over the course of human history.
This post was edited on 6/21/16 at 1:25 am
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:25 am to randomways
See my edit about Perriloux.
Like I said, if Saban keeps Cam, Bama fans have no standing to criticize any other program for corruption.
I stand by that statement.
ETA: I don't care if he does keep Cam.
Like I said, if Saban keeps Cam, Bama fans have no standing to criticize any other program for corruption.
I stand by that statement.
ETA: I don't care if he does keep Cam.
This post was edited on 6/21/16 at 1:26 am
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:29 am to SeekGreatness
quote:
Edit: Les got rid of superstar QB Ryan Perriloux for FAR less, setting back the LSU QB situation for years.
I'd point out that one has nothing to do with the other, but I was under the impression that Perrilloux was kicked off for a pattern of bad behavior, not a single incident. Les also kept Mathieu around for quite a while despite repeated drug test failures. Let's not turn this into a "my coach is holier than theirs" debate, because all coaches have questionable decisions to their name.
Edit: Dammit, I had to look up his name when I realized you spelled it with one 'l' and I spelled it with two. Can we at least agree that y'all coonasses are driving the rest of us crazy trying to spell your French names?
This post was edited on 6/21/16 at 1:33 am
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:30 am to randomways
Funny you mention drug test failures right after you advocate for legalization...
ETA: RP was kicked off the team for "violation of team rules."
ETA: RP was kicked off the team for "violation of team rules."
This post was edited on 6/21/16 at 1:32 am
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:34 am to SeekGreatness
quote:
Funny you mention drug test failures right after you advocate for legalization...
ETA: RP was kicked off the team for "violation of team rules."
I don't care. Unless it affects his contribution to the program, I'm perfectly content with a coach keeping a kid who failed a drug test. I was just addressing your attempt to hold up Les as a model of strict discipline.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:38 am to randomways
Violation of team rules, or failing drug test < being found in a car in a closed park at night with a STOLEN handgun and a little weed.
Not even close.
Edit: and the first two were removed from the team for those lesser offenses.
So yeah, I can say at this point if Bama plays those guys, their fans can't criticize other teams who cover up their players' actions, or participate in shady deals like Ole Miss.
Not even close.
Edit: and the first two were removed from the team for those lesser offenses.
So yeah, I can say at this point if Bama plays those guys, their fans can't criticize other teams who cover up their players' actions, or participate in shady deals like Ole Miss.
This post was edited on 6/21/16 at 1:41 am
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:45 am to SeekGreatness
quote:
Violation of team rules, or failing drug test < being found in a car in a closed park at night with a STOLEN handgun and a little weed.
Not even close.
Edit: and the first two were removed from the team for those lesser offenses.
So yeah, I can say at this point if Bama plays those guys, their fans can't criticize other teams who cover up their players' actions.
We're debating in circles now. I've already offered my take on the legal aspects of the issue, and you've already established you consider the issue more serious than the legal outcome suggests. The drugs issue would be a wash. You have weed, you tested positive for weed, there's no substantive difference, just a semantic one. And our interpretation of holding someone accountable for crime that hasn't been established as actually being committed by said someone is apparently going to be forever at loggerheads because of our perspective differences.
For these reasons, I think we should just end it here, but I do appreciate that we were able to have an intellectual debate civilly. There are days when I'm not sure the Rant has ever done anything civilly besides try to relive the glory days of fightin' those damned blues up north.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:49 am to randomways
Ha ok...well I believe more can and should be done administratively than criminally and apparently you don't...I guess that's the big divide here.
It's almost like there's an assumption that if there isn't enough evidence to charge criminally, or for whatever reason the person isn't charged criminally, or if they are found not guilty, they should automatically be allowed to play. I believe that sets a dangerous precedent.
Edit: criminal charges are about taking away rights. Getting to play NCAA is a privilege and is not a guaranteed right. The standard should be higher to get to play than just "not getting criminally convicted." After all, isn't that the case with Ole Miss and Tunsil? It certainly was the case with RP being processed for "violating team rules."
It's almost like there's an assumption that if there isn't enough evidence to charge criminally, or for whatever reason the person isn't charged criminally, or if they are found not guilty, they should automatically be allowed to play. I believe that sets a dangerous precedent.
Edit: criminal charges are about taking away rights. Getting to play NCAA is a privilege and is not a guaranteed right. The standard should be higher to get to play than just "not getting criminally convicted." After all, isn't that the case with Ole Miss and Tunsil? It certainly was the case with RP being processed for "violating team rules."
This post was edited on 6/21/16 at 1:57 am
Posted on 6/21/16 at 1:58 am to SeekGreatness
quote:
It's almost like there's an assumption that if there isn't enough evidence to charge criminally, or for whatever reason the person isn't charged criminally, or if they are found not guilty, they should automatically be allowed to play. I believe that sets a dangerous precedent.
Well, I have trouble going away -- and away I must go, because I do have work to do -- without addressing this. Granted, playing is a privilege, but a fervent (there have been other, more half-hearted examples in the past) innocent until proven guilty ethos is quite likely the greatest contribution American jurisprudence has given to the common discourse. More than freedom of expression, more than Miranda rights, more than anything I can think of right now. I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with a college sports program modeling its behavior on that. We can all have our opinions of a person's guilt -- most people still believe OJ was guilty even though he was acquitted -- but criticizing an institution for taking that path is a far more dangerous precedent in my opinion.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 4:24 am to MykTide
quote:
The Louisiana media has a Pulitzer waiting for them if they would do a little work. But of course the uat mafia would put a hit on them.
That's a damn strong melt there.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 5:59 am to SeekGreatness
You fail to mention how many times Perriloux "violated team rules" or Mathieu "failed drug tests". These guys were booted because of cumulative actions, which is not far less than the Bama players, but far worse. If Cam or Hootie keep frickin up, they should probably go, but you're being disingenuous with your comparisons.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 6:01 am to Othello
Bama fans would post celebratory "Haha, look at everyone melting!" threads if one of their players beat a rape charge due to an illegal search. They STILL think referring back to the stupid Gump charged with sexual assault in N.O. Is funny. Why there are still people who don't find them pathetic is beyond me.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 6:02 am to JuiceTerry
Why melt idiots? Did anyone actually believe anything would really be done to these innocent players? lulz
Posted on 6/21/16 at 6:03 am to SeekGreatness
quote:
Les got rid of superstar QB Ryan Perriloux for FAR less, setting back the LSU QB situation for years.
:rofl:
Posted on 6/21/16 at 6:07 am to LelandSU
Melting in a melt thread. So meta.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 6:21 am to SeekGreatness
Les Miles allowed a player on his team who as an adult, admitted to having sex with a 14 year old child. The incident was video recorded. The players charges were reduced but still got probation. A year or two later the player was video recorded violating probation when he sucker punched a drunk from behind and lied to the cops about it.
The Louisiana judge let him off with a "stern" warning and didn't violate his probation when video evidence clearly showed he did. Les called for a team vote.
Your outrage over this is hysterical and hypocritical.
Roll Damn Tide.
The Louisiana judge let him off with a "stern" warning and didn't violate his probation when video evidence clearly showed he did. Les called for a team vote.
Your outrage over this is hysterical and hypocritical.
Roll Damn Tide.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 6:28 am to cajunbama
Didn't saban allow a woman beater to join the team? Damn. Look in a mirror folks.
Posted on 6/21/16 at 6:29 am to LelandSU
quote:
Haha, look at everyone melting!" threads if one of their players beat a rape charge
Recidivist Jeremy Hill comes to mind.
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