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re: Manziel recommendation from NCAA on Wednesday
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:45 pm to Roger Klarvin
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:45 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The NCAA "recommended" that LSU suspend Akiem Hicks from all team activities. They never formally suspended him. LSU handled the matter internally. LSU was guilty of secondary violations in that situation. You continue upon a false premise. Hicks' situation is a prime example of how wrong you are
quote:That's not what happened in the Hicks case Rog.
Additional evidence of Hicks guilt was revealed after the recommendations were made. Had LSU ignored them and nothing else came out, nothing would have come of it.
Like a guy on ESPN said this morning, the NCAA doesn't recommend when it can require.
Who is saying the NCAA will make a recommendation on this shitshow besides Pawl Finebalm?
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Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:46 pm to ChemE in the OP
You're trusting Finebaum and a possible A&M source for your headline?:
YOU'RE FIRED!
quote:
Manziel recommendation from NCAA on Wednesday
YOU'RE FIRED!
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:46 pm to therick711
quote:
Honest question, do you know that they don't have "tangible" evidence? I most certainly don't know. If there is a link, please link it. If these "agents" or "brokers" gave the NCAA anything, I don't know in all honesty.
Nobody knows.
Aggies are hanging their hats on the statements being made by their administration.
What they're not admitting is that every single program that's ever faced an inquiry has said the same exact thing. Sometimes they're right (see Auburn, 2010), sometimes they're wrong (see Alabama, 1995).
Until the NCAA speaks, we're all just guessing.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:48 pm to therick711
quote:
The NCAA never gives programs that option when proof of guilt is evident beforehand. Goodness...
quote:The NCAA is one unpredictable motha.
The Reggie Bush and Ohio State situations come to mind as some notable exceptions to your broad brush. Sometimes these things take time and other times the NCAA just makes up a rule so OSU can embarrass Arky.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:49 pm to RT1941
quote:
The NCAA is one unpredictable motha.
The NCAA cleared Bush, then later went back and retroactively reversed the initial conclusion. The Ohio State thing, I don't even . . .
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:49 pm to therick711
quote:
which inferentially proves the principal fact by establishing a condition of surrounding and limiting circumstances, whose existence is a premise from which the existence of the principal fact may be concluded by necessary laws of reasoning
"May be concluded by necessary laws of reasoning." What do you think that means? Is it possible to reason that 2+2 = 5? In logical reasoning, there is only one conclusion or it is inconclusive and unclear. Thus, the fact finder must find that no other conclusion is credible.
If you are talking about the evidentiary standard the NCAA is bound by, there is no explicit standard, but according to the NCAA investigator guy on ESPN, it's more like the clear and convincing standard, not preponderance or beyond reasonable doubt.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:49 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
The NCAA never gives programs that option when proof of guilt is evident beforehand. Goodness...
The proof of guilt is irrelevant at this point because, as I said before, the process isn't complete. They simply aren't going to say "We're going to go ahead and bench JFF and take the chance that the suspension is lifted on appeal after games have been played." That's a disaster waiting to happen.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:50 pm to LarryDavid
quote:
You're trusting Finebaum and a possible A&M source for your headline?:
That's what I'm saying - WTF does Pawl Finebaum know? Has aTm administration made a statment, the NCAA?
Hell, Finebaum has trolled this board like a champ today.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:50 pm to JustGetItRight
quote:
Until the NCAA speaks, we're all just guessing.
NO! We absolutely, positively KNOW...
...nothing.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:50 pm to JustGetItRight
quote:
Honest question, do you know that they don't have "tangible" evidence?
You don't think Joe Sink Fish Shad of ESPN didn't share what he had with the NCAA, what he heard? Is he not a decent source? Does he not still have egg on his face for breaking the Cam story that ended up blowing up in his face? Does he not want to at least go 1-1 in his last two big stories, otherwise he's pretty much done?
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:50 pm to therick711
quote:
The Reggie Bush and Ohio State situations come to mind as some notable exceptions to your broad brush.
Retroactive punishment is not equivalent to what I said.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:51 pm to RT1941
quote:
The NCAA is one unpredictable motha.
The NCAA cleared Bush, then later went back and retroactively reversed the initial conclusion. The Ohio State thing, I don't even . . .
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:52 pm to LarryDavid
Larry replies to Larry.
And that's all I'm going to say about all that.
And that's all I'm going to say about all that.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:53 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Retroactive punishment is not equivalent to what I said.
You said they don't ever give options when there is proof of guilt. Those are two situations where they gave options. They gave PSU options. Consent discipline or risk the hammer being thrown at them. They gave LSU options in the Akiem Hicks case. It just isn't true, man.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:56 pm to therick711
Reggie Bush was CLEARED and they went back and retroactively punished him. The OSU case was confusing as frick but in the end the NCAA didn't give them a "choice" of punishment, they said they can play in the Sugar Bowl and this is their suspension next year.
No team has ever been given the option of freely playing a guy who the NCAA could, at that moment, forcibly suspend if they wanted to. It has never happened. Not once.
No team has ever been given the option of freely playing a guy who the NCAA could, at that moment, forcibly suspend if they wanted to. It has never happened. Not once.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:57 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
No team has ever been given the option of freely playing a guy who the NCAA could, at that moment, forcibly suspend if they wanted to. It has never happened. Not once.
Ohio State was. End thread.
LINK
This post was edited on 8/27/13 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:57 pm to LarryDavid
quote:
You don't think Joe Sink Fish Shad of ESPN didn't share what he had with the NCAA, what he heard? Is he not a decent source?
Nope.
A reporter saying a person told him something doesn't mean dick when the person refuses to talk to the NCAA.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 4:59 pm to therick711
quote:
Sometimes these things take time and other times the NCAA just makes up a rule so OSU can embarrass Arky.
They actually had precedent for that, with the severity of the offense known at the time. Some schools choose to take the punishment during post season.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 5:00 pm to therick711
quote:They gave PSU options and still dropped the damn atomic bomb on them. The OSU shite, was a fricking mockery of epic proportions. And dumbass Gordon Gee, "I hope Jim Tressel doesn't decide to fire me." That shite came back to bite him. Chancellor Sharp better hope his evidence completely exonerates JFF or he will look like another Gordon Gee when it's all said and done.
You said they don't ever give options when there is proof of guilt. Those are two situations where they gave options. They gave PSU options. Consent discipline or risk the hammer being thrown at them. They gave LSU options in the Akiem Hicks case. It just isn't true, man.
Sorry, Johnny Manziel is just leaky a vessel for me to put much trust and faith in - a top notch QB, a great athlete, I love to watch the kid play ball. But I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.
Posted on 8/27/13 at 5:00 pm to therick711
quote:
The NCAA cleared Bush, then later went back and retroactively reversed the initial conclusion. The Ohio State thing, I don't even . . .
That is true, and it is one of the reasons the NCAA is a POS and is on its way out. It's too inconsistent and too open for unfair, abusive treatment of certain programs that don't have Charles Allen Wright on the investigations and appeals board of the NCAA. The NCAA is allowed to punish a program after the fact, despite that program's adhering to its prior recommendations. That's why, as I am sure you know, we don't allow ex post facto and double jeopardy, etc. in the U.S. The opportunity for abuse is way too great. Yet, the NCAA does it all the time and it's deemed "fair" by the guys who run the NCAA and work for the arse pirates in Austin.
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