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re: Knee jerk coaching hires led to where we are at in the SEC
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:28 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:28 am to RollTide1987
quote:
days of Pat Dye.
haha, so less than 10 years?
But ok, what does that really tell us? It's not like we canned Tubs in 2007.
Tuberville was here for 10 years. Auburn lost fewer than 4 games 3 out of 10 years. Despite the stretch you reference, he averaged 8.5 wins a season. Gus is at 8.75 right now (game difference noted, but still not materially different).
Moving on after 10 years of that isn't exactly an edgy move. Tubs was consistently above average, but I fail to see how he's really a good example of your thesis here.
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Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:36 am to CBandits82
quote:
You make a play for a guy who had success at Houston and was up and coming. Was not a bad hire at the time.
Here are the other coaches who changed jobs that offseason:
Larry Fedora (Southern Miss to North Carolina)
Justin Fuente (TCU OC to Memphis)
Paul Chryst (Wisconsin OC to Pittsburgh)
Rich Rodriguez (Michigan to Arizona)
Todd Graham (Rice to Arizona State)
Jim Mora (Seattle Seahawks to UCLA)
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:40 am to RollTide1987
quote:
In short, the war Saban began when he arrived at Alabama in January 2007 has finally overwhelmed the conference. We are seeing a repeat of what it was like to be a fan of an SEC school not named Alabama in the 1970s. You're just going to have to go with the flow until Saban's power weakens or until he retires. It sucks but there it is
I'm won't argue your points, in fact I would say that you hit it dead on. Up throug 2010, you had any number of teams competing for SEC championships. Florida won Two championships, LSU won two championships and Auburn won one and Alabama won 1....and then it just became Alabama and everyone else was playing for second and third place and right now, the gap between Alabama and every one else is pretty wide. It's good for Alabama, but, I'm not so sure that it's good for the SEC .
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:40 am to Pettifogger
quote:
Tubs was consistently above average, but I fail to see how he's really a good example of your thesis here.
How many players on that 2010 roster were his recruits?
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:46 am to RollTide1987
Vanderbilt will take care of alabama this weekend
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:48 am to RollTide1987
quote:
From 2004-2007, Tuberville was 42-9. That's a winning percentage of over 82%. When was the last time Auburn had a four-year stretch that good? You'd have to go back to the days of Pat Dye.
Read the rest of his post. Tubs wasn't going to keep up with Saban let alone Richt and Miles.. also, the relationship had soured for him as well. He got himself and his boys the ten years for the AL pensions and goal was accomplished.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:49 am to RollTide1987
quote:
LSU fired a coach who had won 77% of his games over 12 seasons and replaced him with a man whose record as a head coach can only be described as a joke. Enough said.
Jimbo or Tom Herman or bust. They went bust.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:50 am to RollTide1987
Gene Chizik
David Cutcliffe
Jimbo Fisher
Gus Malzahn
Jim McElwain
Dan Mullen
Will Muschamp
Bo Pellini
Kirby Smart
Bob Stoops
Charlie Strong
Every one of these guys has something in common: they were all coordinators on SEC teams that won an NC, then went on to become HCs.
Some have worked out; two (Fisher and Stoops) have won NCs. But most have failed and been fired (or are currently struggling).
The point is, even proven SEC experienced coaches with NC rings - the very opposite of a high-risk hire - aren't guaranteed successful.
David Cutcliffe
Jimbo Fisher
Gus Malzahn
Jim McElwain
Dan Mullen
Will Muschamp
Bo Pellini
Kirby Smart
Bob Stoops
Charlie Strong
Every one of these guys has something in common: they were all coordinators on SEC teams that won an NC, then went on to become HCs.
Some have worked out; two (Fisher and Stoops) have won NCs. But most have failed and been fired (or are currently struggling).
The point is, even proven SEC experienced coaches with NC rings - the very opposite of a high-risk hire - aren't guaranteed successful.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:53 am to RollTide1987
quote:
How many players on that 2010 roster were his recruits?
The one that mattered most wasn't. Still not really following your argument here.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:02 pm to CBandits82
There's something else that is involved in hires. It's tied to laws in place now.
You really can't give an honest assessment of a former employee. You can say, I'd rehire him. or not.
You can't say "Cancer int he work place, pads his expenses, would not trust him with the son of your worst enemy."
All you can judge by is on the field, and maybe in teenagers twitter reports. On the field is tied to native talent. Teenagers and attitudes...
You really can't give an honest assessment of a former employee. You can say, I'd rehire him. or not.
You can't say "Cancer int he work place, pads his expenses, would not trust him with the son of your worst enemy."
All you can judge by is on the field, and maybe in teenagers twitter reports. On the field is tied to native talent. Teenagers and attitudes...
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:11 pm to RollTide1987
Not everyone can get lucky enough to run ads backwards into a Saban type coach.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:13 pm to RollTide1987
There is Saban and a bunch of also rans or those who are still trying to prove themselves.
LSU, Tennessee, Florida all made poor hiring decisions, and are paying the price for it.
The other side of that, is that there are only a small handful of elite coaches, and they don't move that often, especially from one school to another.
LSU, Tennessee, Florida all made poor hiring decisions, and are paying the price for it.
The other side of that, is that there are only a small handful of elite coaches, and they don't move that often, especially from one school to another.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:16 pm to RollTide1987
One part of this that is being overlooked is recruiting.
We like to fixate on coaching but in the SEC recruiting is really what separates the different programs.
Nick's program is sucking in more talent than any college football program in the modern era. Each signing class he signs what would normally be two teams worth of star players and a lot of that talent is coming from other states in the SEC.
This makes it harder for almost every SEC team to recruit, but it REALLY makes it harder for someone like Auburn or Tennessee to have the kind of talent that guarantees them dominance over a Kentucky or Mississippi State. So the league overall has more parity and less excellence.
In the past you could count on kids to distribute themselves pretty evenly. If a team already had a stud at a position then they would rather sign with a team offering them playing time. Nick's Bama has five stars signing up to sit on the bench. That changes the game, and the rest of the SEC hasn't adapted yet (outside of MSU).
We like to fixate on coaching but in the SEC recruiting is really what separates the different programs.
Nick's program is sucking in more talent than any college football program in the modern era. Each signing class he signs what would normally be two teams worth of star players and a lot of that talent is coming from other states in the SEC.
This makes it harder for almost every SEC team to recruit, but it REALLY makes it harder for someone like Auburn or Tennessee to have the kind of talent that guarantees them dominance over a Kentucky or Mississippi State. So the league overall has more parity and less excellence.
In the past you could count on kids to distribute themselves pretty evenly. If a team already had a stud at a position then they would rather sign with a team offering them playing time. Nick's Bama has five stars signing up to sit on the bench. That changes the game, and the rest of the SEC hasn't adapted yet (outside of MSU).
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:33 pm to RollTide1987
There just aren't that many slam dunk coaches who would come here. It's just a much easier path now that we have the playoffs.
Found a ranking of the top 25 coaches in CFB. I added a few more names that always get brought up:
Already in the SEC or turned down a chance to coach in the SEC:
Nick Saban
Urban Meyer
Dan Mullen
Gus Malzahn
Jimbo Fisher
Jim McElwain
Mark Richt
Tom Herman
Coaches in better situations or probably won't come back:
Dabo Swinney
Jim Harbaugh
David Cutcliffe
James Franklin
Bobby Petrino
Coaches who won't coach again:
Bill Snyder
Bob Stoops
Jon Gruden
That leaves:
Chris Peterson - Washington
David Shaw - Stanford
Gary Patterson - TCU
Mark Dantonio - Michigan State
Mike Gundy - Oklahoma State
Kyle Whittingham - Utah
Pat Fitzgerald - Northwestern
Kirk Ferentz - Iowa
Brian Kelly - Notre Dame
Paul Johnson - Georgia Tech
Mike Leach - Washington State
PJ Fleck - Minnesota
Chip Kelly
Out of that list, besides Chip Kelly who is a slam dunk hire? Who is guaranteed to be successful in the SEC?
Found a ranking of the top 25 coaches in CFB. I added a few more names that always get brought up:
Already in the SEC or turned down a chance to coach in the SEC:
Nick Saban
Urban Meyer
Dan Mullen
Gus Malzahn
Jimbo Fisher
Jim McElwain
Mark Richt
Tom Herman
Coaches in better situations or probably won't come back:
Dabo Swinney
Jim Harbaugh
David Cutcliffe
James Franklin
Bobby Petrino
Coaches who won't coach again:
Bill Snyder
Bob Stoops
Jon Gruden
That leaves:
Chris Peterson - Washington
David Shaw - Stanford
Gary Patterson - TCU
Mark Dantonio - Michigan State
Mike Gundy - Oklahoma State
Kyle Whittingham - Utah
Pat Fitzgerald - Northwestern
Kirk Ferentz - Iowa
Brian Kelly - Notre Dame
Paul Johnson - Georgia Tech
Mike Leach - Washington State
PJ Fleck - Minnesota
Chip Kelly
Out of that list, besides Chip Kelly who is a slam dunk hire? Who is guaranteed to be successful in the SEC?
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:33 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
quote:
Jones had success at Cincy.
Butch Jones literally followed Brian Kelly everywhere he went except for Notre Dame.
Central Michigan
Brian Kelly: 2004-2006
Butch Jones: 2007-2009
Cincinnati
Brian Kelly: 2007-2009
Butch Jones: 2010-2012
That's another thing you have to look out for when hiring an "up & comer." How much of their success is tied to the previous coach? Did they just maintain the status quo of a successful coach or did they take things to the next level due to their own work? Coach Fran is kind of a case study for what to look out for when hiring a mid-level coach. Fran never saw a recruit of his graduate. He could turn things around for a year or so but he got out of dodge before he had to sustain anything. He rode Tomlinson into the Bama job. Hindsight is 20/20 but it is easy to see why he failed at A&M when you look back at his career.
There's also something be said about how maybe we overvalue how attractive coaching in the SEC is. It's a 365 meat grinder and lately we've had championship coaches fired because they couldn't win more than 10 games. Coaches are competitive people but many also value quality of life. They might be willing to settle for a little less if it means more longetivity & less stress. That's one reason why I don't think it's automatic that Dabo leaves for Alabama.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:34 pm to dbeck
quote:
Paul Johnson - Georgia Tech
Why did you invite the vampire into the house? Now we suffer
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:36 pm to dbeck
quote:
Chris Peterson - Washington
I think in his own way has shut the door on coming down to the South.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:37 pm to RollTide1987
Bama stopped getting in trouble for paying players. Almost 20 years of probation to sudden can't be touched for any rules broke and everyone else is nailed for less. No coach could win without players. Likewise any coach can look great with them.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 12:45 pm to RollTide1987
Honestly the talent level in the SEC is decreasing at alarming rate..
The other conferences have caught or passed the SEC.
The other conferences have caught or passed the SEC.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 1:10 pm to bmy
Hiring a great coach is a crapshoot. It doesn't matter how much talent, prestige, or resources you have. You have to either have great timing or great luck. Even the great Bama went through a decade of futility before lucking into Saban.
Guys like Malzahn and Sumlin were equally "hot" commodities as Herman and Fleck, and now they are shite coaches.
I bet you all would have laughed if a program like LSU, Florida, Auburn, or Georgia would have hired Dabo Swinney 9 years ago. shite, would Dabo have even lasted at these SEC schools after his first three mediocre seasons with the expectations?
Guys like Malzahn and Sumlin were equally "hot" commodities as Herman and Fleck, and now they are shite coaches.
I bet you all would have laughed if a program like LSU, Florida, Auburn, or Georgia would have hired Dabo Swinney 9 years ago. shite, would Dabo have even lasted at these SEC schools after his first three mediocre seasons with the expectations?
This post was edited on 9/18/17 at 1:17 pm
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