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Knee jerk coaching hires led to where we are at in the SEC
Posted on 9/18/17 at 10:58 am
Posted on 9/18/17 at 10:58 am
The coaching in the SEC is abysmal because five of the so-called "Big Six" schools were too impatient for success. They saw what Nick Saban and Alabama were doing and figured they could emulate the success the Tide were enjoying in Tuscaloosa.
Auburn fired Tommy Tuberville which, but for two Cinderella seasons, has produced mediocre results.
Tennessee fired Phillip Fulmer and the Vols have been mostly irrelevant ever since.
Urban Meyer quit on Florida and the Gators did themselves a disservice by going after coordinators instead of trying to snag themselves a proven head coach. The results have been predictable.
Georgia fired Mark Richt and, while it's still too early to tell, Kirby Smart seems to have them going in the right direction. But, as I said before, it's still too early to tell.
LSU fired a coach who had won 77% of his games over 12 seasons and replaced him with a man whose record as a head coach can only be described as a joke. Enough said.
The bottom feeders, with the occasional success story here and there, remain bottom feeders fighting for pride and the occasional upset over a highly ranked SEC opponent.
In short, the war Saban began when he arrived at Alabama in January 2007 has finally overwhelmed the conference. We are seeing a repeat of what it was like to be a fan of an SEC school not named Alabama in the 1970s. You're just going to have to go with the flow until Saban's power weakens or until he retires. It sucks but there it is.
Auburn fired Tommy Tuberville which, but for two Cinderella seasons, has produced mediocre results.
Tennessee fired Phillip Fulmer and the Vols have been mostly irrelevant ever since.
Urban Meyer quit on Florida and the Gators did themselves a disservice by going after coordinators instead of trying to snag themselves a proven head coach. The results have been predictable.
Georgia fired Mark Richt and, while it's still too early to tell, Kirby Smart seems to have them going in the right direction. But, as I said before, it's still too early to tell.
LSU fired a coach who had won 77% of his games over 12 seasons and replaced him with a man whose record as a head coach can only be described as a joke. Enough said.
The bottom feeders, with the occasional success story here and there, remain bottom feeders fighting for pride and the occasional upset over a highly ranked SEC opponent.
In short, the war Saban began when he arrived at Alabama in January 2007 has finally overwhelmed the conference. We are seeing a repeat of what it was like to be a fan of an SEC school not named Alabama in the 1970s. You're just going to have to go with the flow until Saban's power weakens or until he retires. It sucks but there it is.
This post was edited on 9/18/17 at 11:00 am
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:05 am to RollTide1987
I said it all off season.
The head coaches in this league are abysmal.
The head coaches in this league are abysmal.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:06 am to RollTide1987
Eh, I don't think the problem is so much with giving up on good coaches. Possible exceptions include Miles and Richt.
But what was Tuberville, if not mediocre results with a cinderella season thrown in? I don't think Tubs or Fulmer would have kept up well with the league. I think there is a general shelf life on coaches in this conference.
I do think chasing the next big thing is a mistake (rather than focusing on consistent, accomplished coaches). But has that really happened?
Dooley was a stupid hire, so was Chizik. Neither made much sense, but neither were chasing windmills hires either. McElwain and Butch Jones do not fit the mold of great SEC coaches, and it's easy to look at them now and go WTF. But both had HC success. Malzahn lacks a solid HC record, but he wasn't exactly the sexiest "compete with Saban" hire either.
To the extent people should have been hiring the Dan Mullens of the world, maybe you're right. But I think the idea that schools are making bad decisions to chase Saban is largely overblown (save perhaps Miles or Richt).
There aren't any other Sabans out there, and I think schools pretty much realize that at this point. I don't want a coach who can rival Saban, I want a coach who can regularly get to 9-11 wins, rather than 7-9 wins.
But what was Tuberville, if not mediocre results with a cinderella season thrown in? I don't think Tubs or Fulmer would have kept up well with the league. I think there is a general shelf life on coaches in this conference.
I do think chasing the next big thing is a mistake (rather than focusing on consistent, accomplished coaches). But has that really happened?
Dooley was a stupid hire, so was Chizik. Neither made much sense, but neither were chasing windmills hires either. McElwain and Butch Jones do not fit the mold of great SEC coaches, and it's easy to look at them now and go WTF. But both had HC success. Malzahn lacks a solid HC record, but he wasn't exactly the sexiest "compete with Saban" hire either.
To the extent people should have been hiring the Dan Mullens of the world, maybe you're right. But I think the idea that schools are making bad decisions to chase Saban is largely overblown (save perhaps Miles or Richt).
There aren't any other Sabans out there, and I think schools pretty much realize that at this point. I don't want a coach who can rival Saban, I want a coach who can regularly get to 9-11 wins, rather than 7-9 wins.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:08 am to RollTide1987
Mac was a head coach when UF hired him . Both guys UF hired were top up and coming coaches but turned out to be bust. Macs issue could be the OC . Will be interesting to see if he takes over play calling to try and save his job.
Even the bottom feeders have made some horrible hires. SC hiring Muschamp and Arkansas hiring Bert.
Even the bottom feeders have made some horrible hires. SC hiring Muschamp and Arkansas hiring Bert.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:10 am to RollTide1987
Fat Phil has been gone for 9 seasons now and UT has had 3 coaches. UT's problem is much deeper than Auburn's. A lot of it has to do with the state of Tennessee does not create many top level prospects and is riddled with small town high schools compared to the rest of the south.
Auburn has since been to two national championships since Tubs left. Something that Tubs never even did himself. Florida and Georgia will be back. LSU will be back after they fire the Red Bull Vending Machine. Tennessee has much deeper problems and isn't in the other teams' league that you just referenced. Tennessee's relevance essentially dissipated in the 1990s. Every other program you have mentioned has been nationally relevant since Bush's 2nd term.
Auburn has since been to two national championships since Tubs left. Something that Tubs never even did himself. Florida and Georgia will be back. LSU will be back after they fire the Red Bull Vending Machine. Tennessee has much deeper problems and isn't in the other teams' league that you just referenced. Tennessee's relevance essentially dissipated in the 1990s. Every other program you have mentioned has been nationally relevant since Bush's 2nd term.
This post was edited on 9/18/17 at 11:11 am
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:11 am to RollTide1987
quote:
They saw what Nick Saban and Alabama were doing and figured they could emulate the success the Tide were enjoying in Tuscaloosa.
Although I agree with your post and overall sentiment. What is the option?... wait until Saban retires or dies or try and make moves to compete in the SEC? Especially from the perspective of SECW teams like LSU/Auburn. Road to Atlanta goes through Saban/Bama and your not making the playoffs by NOT playing in the SECCG...
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:12 am to PharmacistReb
It's 2017, the state of Tennessee is churning out blue chip prospects at a very high rate.
Talent is not the problem for Tennessee.
Talent is not the problem for Tennessee.
This post was edited on 9/18/17 at 11:13 am
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:16 am to Pettifogger
quote:
But what was Tuberville, if not mediocre results with a cinderella season thrown in?
From 2004-2007, Tuberville was 42-9. That's a winning percentage of over 82%. When was the last time Auburn had a four-year stretch that good? You'd have to go back to the days of Pat Dye.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:18 am to Pettifogger
Maybe it's me but hiring coaches seems to be tougher than it was 10 years ago. A lot more uncertainty. There isn't a great crop of upcoming mid-tier coaches to mine from. Some coaches used to stay at a mid-tier school for a few years so their success wasn't tied to one class or one player. It was easier to filter out the pretenders from the real deal.
Timing is everything with coaching hires. Sometimes the well is bone dry and other times you catch a premium coach at the right time.
Timing is everything with coaching hires. Sometimes the well is bone dry and other times you catch a premium coach at the right time.
This post was edited on 9/18/17 at 11:21 am
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:20 am to RollTide1987
How does A&M play into this? It was obvious that Sherman had to go after multiple 2nd half collapses (A&M led Oklahoma State 20-3 at halftime, Arkansas 35-17 at halftime, Missouri 28-17 after 3, Kansas State 24-14 with 3 minutes left in the game, and Texas 16-7 at halftime; losing all 5 of those games)
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:22 am to FairhopeTider
quote:
Timing is everything with coaching hires. Sometimes the well is bone dry and other times you catch a premium coach at the right time.
for sure.
The LSU hire is an outlier here IMO.
Florida at least made offers to up and coming head coaches.
Jones had success at Cincy.
LSU didn't even really have a hiring process and our AD just went and hired O after talking to Herman for a session. We didn't even have a coaching search. The O hire needs an asterix because it is so fricking crazy.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:23 am to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
How does A&M play into this? It was obvious that Sherman had to go after multiple 2nd half collapses (A&M led Oklahoma State 20-3 at halftime, Arkansas 35-17 at halftime, Missouri 28-17 after 3, Kansas State 24-14 with 3 minutes left in the game, and Texas 16-7 at halftime; losing all 5 of those games)
You make a play for a guy who had success at Houston and was up and coming. Was not a bad hire at the time.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:24 am to RollTide1987
Now tell us about those successful hires bama made between Stallings and Saban.
It's difficult finding a great coach. SEC schools have failed bc there are an extremely low number of Nick Sabans and Urban Meyers. LSU should have gotten a better coach, but that doesn't mean much. Florida or LSU should have hired Mullen, but that wouldn't change the point about the SEC.
Fulmer needed to go and Miles extremely needed to go. Richt shouldn't have been released. That is the exception.
It's difficult finding a great coach. SEC schools have failed bc there are an extremely low number of Nick Sabans and Urban Meyers. LSU should have gotten a better coach, but that doesn't mean much. Florida or LSU should have hired Mullen, but that wouldn't change the point about the SEC.
Fulmer needed to go and Miles extremely needed to go. Richt shouldn't have been released. That is the exception.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:24 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Urban Meyer quit on Florida and the Gators did themselves a disservice by going after coordinators instead of trying to snag themselves a proven head coach. The results have been predictable.
who else were we supposed to get?
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:24 am to CGSC Lobotomy
Look at the BIG 10
Urban
Harbaugh
Franklin
Those are three coaches that are likely in the top 10 on just about every coach ranking out there
Then you have Fleck, which is considered one of the top young coaches by just about everyone
Then you have
Ferentz
Dantonio
Which are considered two of the most respected coaches at maintaining a program at a non elite school
The SEC is Saban who is elite, Mullen, who is right in line with Ferentz and Dantonio, and a bunch of goobers and a few unknowns(smart, mason)
Urban
Harbaugh
Franklin
Those are three coaches that are likely in the top 10 on just about every coach ranking out there
Then you have Fleck, which is considered one of the top young coaches by just about everyone
Then you have
Ferentz
Dantonio
Which are considered two of the most respected coaches at maintaining a program at a non elite school
The SEC is Saban who is elite, Mullen, who is right in line with Ferentz and Dantonio, and a bunch of goobers and a few unknowns(smart, mason)
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:24 am to RollTide1987
somewhat true. A lot seems to be your cigar boys having too much influence. A new coach should be hired behind the scenes... sweat out a losing season or 2 if you must to get the right guy. You must play the long game.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:25 am to finchmeister08
quote:Mullen. Yall would fricking roll with Dan
who else were we supposed to get?
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:25 am to RollTide1987
quote:
They saw what Nick Saban and Alabama were doing and figured they could emulate the success the Tide were enjoying in Tuscaloosa.
Auburn fired Tommy Tuberville which, but for two Cinderella seasons, has produced mediocre results.
Tuberville resigned because of family problems. There is a reason his kid came to Auburn to play, that he still lives in Auburn. You guys hold onto his 83 year old mother saying that to a reporter after church.
Why we hired Mr. 5-19 is amazing to everyone. I do not know of a single Auburn fan that supported that move. We wanted a a winner, not a loser.
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:26 am to CBandits82
quote:
Jones had success at Cincy.
Butch Jones literally followed Brian Kelly everywhere he went except for Notre Dame.
Central Michigan
Brian Kelly: 2004-2006
Butch Jones: 2007-2009
Cincinnati
Brian Kelly: 2007-2009
Butch Jones: 2010-2012
If Notre Dame fires Kelly, does Butch Jones take the job?
Posted on 9/18/17 at 11:28 am to RollTide1987
Mostly agree with this analysis, but I don't think CEO was who LSU had in mind when they fired Miles.
Miles couldn't get out of the rut of trying to beat Saban playing bigs on bigs, and that just isn't going to be successful very often. LSU needed to hire someone with a unique and well developed offensive philosophy, and CEO isn't it.
I'd like to see Art Briles give it a go at LSU if he wasn't politcal kryptonite.
Miles couldn't get out of the rut of trying to beat Saban playing bigs on bigs, and that just isn't going to be successful very often. LSU needed to hire someone with a unique and well developed offensive philosophy, and CEO isn't it.
I'd like to see Art Briles give it a go at LSU if he wasn't politcal kryptonite.
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