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re: Kenny Hill named A&M starter
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:19 am to randomways
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:19 am to randomways
quote:
Honest question -- do y'all think Sumlin will catch lightning in a bottle with Hill the way he did with Manziel? I never really perceived Manziel as being a product of Sumlin's coaching so much as a diamond in the rough that Sumlin was lucky to find. Obviously coaching matters, but I'm not sure how much of Manziel's success TAMU fans attribute to Sumlin's coaching and how much they feel he would have torn it up pretty much anywhere that had a good o-line, ann effective multiple spread system, and a pitbull of a primary receiver.
No. There won't be another Johnny. But I think part of Sumlin is excited about that. Johnny was a lot of work off the field, and Sumlin basically got no credit for anything the last two years. Not to mention, that every time Johnny had a highlight play, he wasn't exactly running the offense Sumlin liked. I think Sumlin is looking forward to another Case Keenum type of situation, not that a QB will be THAT successful in the SEC.
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Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:21 am to finestfirst79
quote:
No, and I think we all think that's a silly question.
It's not a silly question in the least, and I hope you don't actually speak for "all" TAMU fans. I didn't ask if Hill would be the same as Manziel. I merely asked if y'all expected it to be another "lightning in a bottle" scenario. Hill was a low-to-middling four star coming out of HS. While that's not the same as 3-star Johnny, it's not exactly the sort of enormous hype that leads to expectations of greatness either, especially against SEC defenses. So I was asking if y'all think Sumlin can elevate him, or if Sumlin can even claim much responsibility for elevating Manziel. If the question bothers you for some obscure (or not-so-obscure) reason, fine. But it's a valid line of inquiry.
quote:
No. There won't be another Johnny. But I think part of Sumlin is excited about that. Johnny was a lot of work off the field, and Sumlin basically got no credit for anything the last two years. Not to mention, that every time Johnny had a highlight play, he wasn't exactly running the offense Sumlin liked. I think Sumlin is looking forward to another Case Keenum type of situation, not that a QB will be THAT successful in the SEC.
I can see that. So you're thinking Sumlin deserved more credit overall, but he was hobbled to a certain extent by his quarterback's style of play?
This post was edited on 8/17/14 at 2:24 am
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:25 am to randomways
I can't remember who I heard this from, but it was one of the bigger talking heads. He said a couple of years ago that if Kenny Hill was 3 inches taller and hadn't missed his whole senior year due to injury, he would have been in contention for the #1 QB recruit. I thought that was interesting.
*** ETA: All of this is wrong. I'm an idiot. Wrong player. Move along.
So I do think he could be VERY good, but I'm also trying to keep expectations low.
The practice reports don't mean much though. The word about Johnny was that he was never amazing in practice. He had the red jersey on, and Kingsbury didn't realize how good he was until the end of the Florida loss.
*** ETA: All of this is wrong. I'm an idiot. Wrong player. Move along.
So I do think he could be VERY good, but I'm also trying to keep expectations low.
The practice reports don't mean much though. The word about Johnny was that he was never amazing in practice. He had the red jersey on, and Kingsbury didn't realize how good he was until the end of the Florida loss.
This post was edited on 8/17/14 at 2:31 am
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:28 am to randomways
quote:
I can see that. So you're thinking Sumlin deserved more credit overall, but he was hobbled to a certain extent by his quarterback's style of play?
Yes. Thank you for not screaming at me for saying that. I honestly believe that Johnny missed some easy reads in his career trying to work his magic. Sumlin is a brilliant offensive mind. I don't think you can argue against that. He has quite the coaching tree already. And he can do it all. He was Johnny Manziel's head coach and Adrian Peterson's OC. He is not going to hide the talent. He will adjust.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:28 am to SwaggerCopter
I was not aware that he was injured in high school and still got a decent ranking. Assuming he has made a full recovery, both physically and skills-wise -- and I can only assume he has or Sumlin wouldn't have named him the starter -- that sounds like y'all got a steal there.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:30 am to randomways
I think I just had a huge brain fart, and was thinking of a different player. My googling is coming up empty... Going to edit my post. It's late. I'm dumb. 
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:34 am to SwaggerCopter
quote:
Yes. Thank you for not screaming at me for saying that. I honestly believe that Johnny missed some easy reads in his career trying to work his magic. Sumlin is a brilliant offensive mind. I don't think you can argue against that. He has quite the coaching tree already. And he can do it all. He was Johnny Manziel's head coach and Adrian Peterson's OC. He is not going to hide the talent. He will adjust.
Heh, no, I'm not going to scream at someone for selling Sumlin. I have a great deal of respect for his offensive coaching abilities. Defensive abilities are another issue, but that's why even the best coaches fail when they have the wrong coordinator to cover the areas they're less adept at (see Saban's string of OCs, for example, not to mention Miles'.) The only reason I had some doubt with regards to Manziel is that, well, Manziel always struck me as basically creating his own situations as he saw fit. No question he was good at it, but the sense of semi-controlled chaos teetering on the brink of a madcap comedy of errors always seeped through when watching him.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:36 am to randomways
quote:
No question he was good at it, but the sense of semi-controlled chaos teetering on the brink of a madcap comedy of errors always seeped through when watching him.
Yes. And I think LSU (and possibly NFL teams) understood that he was not disciplined enough. They could bait him into trying to make the big play. I don't think Sumlin is afraid of LSU. I do think Sumlin probably left that game pissed off the last two years, thinking that Johnny wouldn't follow his game plan. But who knows? Time will tell.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:39 am to SwaggerCopter
quote:
I think I just had a huge brain fart, and was thinking of a different player. My googling is coming up empty... Going to edit my post. It's late. I'm dumb.
It's okay. I still get Joe Namath and Joe Montana mixed up in casual conversation.
It is late. I think I'll be heading to bed now. The wife is on a business trip, so I've been staying up past my bedtime this week. And drinking chocolate syrup straight from the bottle, because it makes me feel as free as the wind blows.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 2:54 am to randomways
quote:
Hill was a low-to-middling four star coming out of HS.
5.9 on Rivals (5.7 is 3-star)
.9090 on 247 (89 or less is 3-star)
90 composite on 247 ( < 89 is 3-star)
Posted on 8/17/14 at 3:58 am to randomways
quote:
do y'all think Sumlin will catch lightning in a bottle with Hill the way he did with Manziel?
As an OC or HC, Sumlin has taken two and three-stars Sam Bradford, Case Keenum and Johnny Manziel all from complete obscurity to Heisman winners/contenders. He has coached one of the top three QBs in college football almost every single season since 2007. At some point, don't we have to start considering that that isn't a coincidence?
So yes, I think it is very possible that Kenny Hill and/or Kyle Allen will eventually be one of if not the best QB in college football.
quote:
never really perceived Manziel as being a product of Sumlin's coaching so much as a diamond in the rough that Sumlin was lucky to find.
Because that is how you choose to perceive it. There is sufficient evidence for an objective observer to say that Kevin Sumlin will routinely produce great QBs for as long as he chooses to coach.
quote:
Obviously coaching matters, but I'm not sure how much of Manziel's success TAMU fans attribute to Sumlin's coaching and how much they feel he would have torn it up pretty much anywhere that had a good o-line, ann effective multiple spread system, and a pitbull of a primary receiver.
The great irony of Manziel is that he was so personally gifted and so often tried for the big play that the offense suffered at times, such as against LSU. In the second half of the 2012 game and all of last year's game, Chevis dared Manziel to dink and dunk his defense to death. He took away the big play Manziel is always looking for and didn't allow him to run, and Manziel was not patient enough to take the 5-10 yard stuff that was WIDE OPEN all game by design.
In many ways, our offense might be more efficient with a QB who plays within the system more.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 7:56 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
In many ways, our offense might be more efficient with a QB who plays within the system more.
Yup.
Manziel was like Manu Ginobili in his prime--at his most scintillating when the structure of the play went to shite and prone to make daring "heat check" type plays. Amazing to watch as a fan, but absolutely maddening to try and coach.
Posted on 8/17/14 at 8:43 am to TbirdSpur2010
Kenny frickin Flowerbed
Posted on 8/17/14 at 9:16 am to Projectpat
quote:
Took the exact same path as Johnny. Be afraid SEC.
As an LSU fan, this news makes me even more confident. The GOAT at your school couldn't beat us, I can only imagine the pain train continues
This post was edited on 8/17/14 at 9:18 am
Posted on 8/17/14 at 10:29 am to Big Moe
quote:
As an LSU fan, this news makes me even more confident. The GOAT at your school couldn't beat us, I can only imagine the pain train continues
Except Kenny will be throwing to Speedy Noil.
Posted on 8/29/14 at 1:37 pm to CNB
quote:
He gonna shite his pants in a couple weeks
Posted on 8/29/14 at 1:38 pm to EKG
Posted on 8/29/14 at 1:39 pm to EKG
quote:
EKG
I see what you did there.
Posted on 8/29/14 at 1:40 pm to EKG
Excellent bump
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