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re: John's Betrayal - The Real 3rd and Chavis?
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:11 am to Jesterea
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:11 am to Jesterea
quote:
He's a good coach, just have more than a two score lead at the end to feel secure.
I think we can do that. Many of us were more pissed at the OC at the end of the season than the DC. His seat is hot.
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Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:12 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
cardboardboxer
Trying too hard.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:17 am to LSU GrandDad
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the proof of that is as fresh as 2013 when his D lost us every loss we had (with the possible exception of ole miss).
See, this is what I am talking about. To an A&M fan this is crazy talk. I mean, how is the Clemson game on Chavis? I lack the perspective as an A&M fan to understand.
To me, if the OC didn't score at least 30 points and we lost the game it is his fault period. Anything more than 30 and I can understand. Of LSU's 2013 loses, in one yall scored more than 30 points.
quote:
last comment is that fans usually don't know shite.
Granddad, normally your "sober LSU fan" act is welcoming but I need a little hyperbole if this conversation is going to get fully fleshed out. It is time for a real talk, the statute of Chavistations is over.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:18 am to TxTiger82
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Trying too hard.
Agreed, so I dropped the Florida thread and I am focused on this one.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:20 am to bopper50
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The real proof in the pudding was in big games like against Bama for instance the past few years, the Chavis defense disappeared, therefore 3rd and Chavis.
That's because Alabama is your daddy and always will be.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:25 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
I mean, how is the Clemson game on Chavis?
The last minute drive to win the game?
Giving up the 4th and 19 at the end to extend that drive?
You didn't see that game. Another bowl game where LSU wasn't ready to play - and the defense shares in the blame on that one.
That defense had Eric Reid, Mingo, Montgomery, Minter, etc. It was ridilculous. Couldn't stop Clemson at all.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:25 am to Gary Busey
quote:
That's because Alabama is your daddy and always will be.
Yeah, yeah.... we know already. Solid contribution though.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:34 am to cardboardboxer
So you guys take a coach of ours.......that we opted not to extend on our terms so why would we be the ones pissy? I can understand your frustration for constantly losing to LSU however.
For all you know, Miles was tired of Chavis's bullshite prevent defense that lost us several games in the last 2 minutes.
Your defense will be much improved, but you still don't have the players to be great
For all you know, Miles was tired of Chavis's bullshite prevent defense that lost us several games in the last 2 minutes.
Your defense will be much improved, but you still don't have the players to be great
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:34 am to AlaTiger
quote:
The last minute drive to win the game?
Giving up the 4th and 19 at the end to extend that drive?
Both suck, but against a modern offense like Clemson 2013 it is expected your defense would be worn out by the end.
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You didn't see that game.
I did. And I saw a LSU team across the board that didn't play with a fire like they should have. How is that Chavis's fault alone?
Heck LSU scored more than 24 points in every SEC win that season except Florida. When that same team can't score more than 24 points in a game with a lessor ACC opponent how is that Chavis's fault?
It seems like LSU just didn't come to play that day across the board.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:42 am to idlewatcher
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So you guys take a coach of ours.......that we opted not to extend on our terms so why would we be the ones pissy?
I didn't say yall were pissy. Quite the opposite, I took your word that LSU fans weren't melting over the hire.
The problem is when I took y'alls word for that I could not reconcile a lack of melt with such stern warnings about 3rd and Chavis. Almost every LSU fan post that sums up their feelings on him leaving mentions it.
Hence the thread- I am trying to figure out why the non-melting LSU fanbase are so insistent to warm us.
quote:
For all you know, Miles was tired of Chavis's bullshite prevent defense that lost us several games in the last 2 minutes.
Agreed. I have no clue what Les thought of it. I mean he certainly didn't seem excited about the DC hiring process the morning Chavis left, but that was following a pretty big bowl letdown.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:47 am to cardboardboxer
Coaching is just one aspect of it. You guys dont have the Defensive talent of LSU. You may progress in some areas, but your D will still be a bottom feeder in the conference next year.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:51 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
And he had our offense figured out like no one else in the SEC did, so it kinda is like offsetting penalties.
he also had the players to stop that offense.....you, sir, do not.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 10:51 am to LSUTiger205
quote:
Coaching is just one aspect of it. You guys dont have the Defensive talent of LSU.
I get that, which is why I am confused about the warnings. If anything it seems like we won't have to face 3rd and Chavis because our shitty defensive talent will blow it on first and second downs.
quote:
. You may progress in some areas, but your D will still be a bottom feeder in the conference next year.
As long as its not last three years in a row I will be happy.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 11:01 am to Hugh McElroy
quote:He's a good coach with a solid scheme. Regarding "3rd and Chavis", it's not about overall percentages, it's when and how.
3rd and Chavis is a reality that cannot be denied.
Everybody keeps saying that, but the stats say the he fields teams that give up 3rd down conversions at a rate far, far less than the national average
Chavis can call an entire game with tight man coverage and blitzes, but during any high-pressure situations, he seems to deeply believe the pressure of the moment will affect the opposing QB into making mistakes. He goes into a soft prevent zone, and it's like he tells the defense "just don't let them get behind you, they will panic and throw the ball away". Maybe part of the thought process is that after facing one type of defense all game, the change will confuse the QB.
It really seems like any opponent with composure who can hang close, say within 1 score, can wait out his defense. At about 3 mins (or if there is a crucial drive required), Chavis swaps over to zone and tries to play safe.
A&M fans never beat us, so they think it's a flame; but go watch LSU's losses against Clemson, Alabama, Ole Miss, etc the past few years. We had a bunch of big games where we were ahead or tied with 4 minutes to go, and teams ran textbook drives against us. Hell, A&M and Florida this year did it, but lost anyway.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 11:02 am to Hugh McElroy
These stats give a different perspective on Chief, at least for me. While LSU's DC, LSU lost 10 games in which we had the lead in the 4th quarter, 6 of which were literally last minute drives. If you add this yr's black bears' game, where Bad Bo blew a reasonable opportunity for a last minute, game tying field goal, leading to a more than probable OT win, that would have made 7 games Chief's defenses lost in the last minute of games with LSU leading. With the defensive talent LSU has had under Chief, blowing 11 games in the 4th quarter is inexcusable. And most of the game winning drives were executed fairly easily by the opposing teams.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 11:24 am to Scoob
So my take away is that you need a more than touchdown lead to win games.
Sounds good, recently for A&M would could be up two or three scores and it wouldn't feel like the game was over.
Sounds good, recently for A&M would could be up two or three scores and it wouldn't feel like the game was over.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 11:42 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
In a way I am sad I will never get to understand what they are talking about, because if A&M's defense ever gets so good I get pissed we are blowing random third downs I will remind myself of how bad it was before John came.
That's the thing... LSU hasn't had a bad defense in a long time. We had great defense's before Chavis came, and they've been mostly great since (except for 2013, which was pretty terrible). When Miles has had great teams, people have basically said that he was just living off of Saban's legacy of winning. When Chavis had great defense's, he got the credit, but - let's face it - he inherited a culture of great defense and a ton of amazing talent.
Is that what he's inheriting at aTm? Can he build a defense from scratch? He's a great coach, and I'm betting you'll see some improvement. I'm sad he's gone, but I'm pretty sure LSU will continue its culture of great defense.
Posted on 1/13/15 at 11:43 am to Hugh McElroy
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Average - #29 nationally. It's not elite by any stretch, but neither is it horrible by any stretch
This is all LSU fans are saying. He takes and elite unit and makes them look slightly above average on 3rd downs because of his passive style. It works ok when he has the horses up front that can pressure without help from the blitz, but when his Dlines are anything other than elite you get seasons like 2009, 2013, & 2014.
So, his defense was ranked in the top 30 (in 3rd down conversions against) twice in six years while at LSU. I think his 3rd and Chavis reputation is well earned.
ETA: Chavis was at LSU in 2009 as well. You didn't include that year in your stats. (31st at 36.04%)
This post was edited on 1/13/15 at 11:51 am
Posted on 1/13/15 at 12:14 pm to tenacious
quote:
I'm sad he's gone, but I'm pretty sure LSU will continue its culture of great defense.
I feel you, I hope you make a good hire for the position and I think LSU will.
With that said, a "culture of a great defense" is basically another way of saying "a period of great defensive recruiting."
Go back to A&M in 1999 and we thought we had a culture of defense- RC Slocum, Wrecking Crew, etc. When the top defensive talent in the state started going to Texas/OU our Wrecking Crew went to being a wrecked crew quickly. Nothing is a glass ceiling in football faster than defensive recruiting- especially defensive line recruiting. Just ask Oregon. Makes sense too- unlike some other positions where you can find a diamond in the rough with the DL it is obvious in junior high if a guy has the talent/numbers to play the position at a high level. Unless you are Gary Pinkel you are competing for the same guys.
I don't have any delusions that A&M's defense will be transformed into this elite D because I have followed our recruiting and I know at best we are one deep. What I am hoping to see, more than anything, is that the new higher rated talent we are bringing in get developed quickly so that within two or three years we have some depth.
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