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How to Destroy the ACC

Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:55 am
Posted by bah7tea
Member since May 2015
97 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:55 am
ACC grant of rights is strong, right? The exit fees are too high. There is no fraud angle for a team looking to exit. BUT, if a majority of teams agree to disband, then there is no exit fee. The ACC has 15 teams, so we need 8 targets. Soon the Big 10, Big 12, SEC will all have 16 teams and the next stop is 20 teams.

So who do you collude with to destroy the ACC? Did you learn nothing from the Cold War? USSR and China? You pit the weaker against the stronger. In our case, it's pitting the Big 12 against the Big 10.

COLLUDE WITH THE BIG 12 to DESTROY THE ACC. With 4 ACC teams guaranteed a spot in the SEC and 4 ACC teams guaranteed a spot in the Big 12, the ACC is done.

Personally, I think the SEC takes FSU, Duke, UNC, UVA. The Big 12 takes Louisville, Clemson, NC State, and V Tech.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 10:58 am
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
4184 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:58 am to
Why does the SEC want the GOR to end?

The reality is the SEC doesn't really want things to change with regards to the ACC right now. They'd rather the status quo than have to make a decision between going after ACC teams for long term value and a potential short term loss.

They'd rather punt this until the GOR for the ACC is over.
Posted by twk
Wichita Falls, Texas
Member since Jul 2011
2115 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 10:58 am to
A vote of 8 teams would not be sufficient to dissolve the ACC. Depending on what the governing law says, it's probably going to require 10 or 12.

Let the ACC keep doing their thing for another 10 years, then we can revisit this subject.
Posted by Landmass
Member since Jun 2013
18070 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:08 am to
quote:

The ACC has 15 teams, so we need 8 targets.


WE don't need anything.
Posted by bah7tea
Member since May 2015
97 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:09 am to
There's what you want, and then there's reality. The Big 10 is clearly not going to stay at 16 teams. The ACC is clearly going to die at some point like the PAC-12 is now.

The SEC needs to be proactive to get the most choice ACC teams or else the Big 10 will. If the Big 10 gets an exclusive foothold in Virginia and North Carolina it's Appomattox Part 2.
Posted by OleVaught14
Member since Jun 2019
6868 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:16 am to
I hope the SEC adds VT if the ACC falls apart.

quote:

College Football games that registered on a seismograph:

Auburn at LSU (1988)
Miami at VT (2011)
Alabama at Auburn (2013)
OSU at VT (2015)
Miami at VT (2016)
Clemson at VT (2017)
Miami at VT (2018)
Notre Dame at VT (2018)
North Carolina at VT (2021)
Alabama at LSU (2022)


Their fans/stadium would be a blast to have in the conference.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 11:17 am
Posted by Matts El Rancho
Member since May 2023
1053 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:21 am to
Step 1: leave the conference

Step 2: blame Texas for destroying your prior league for whatever reason

at least, that's been the typical blue print for most other teams that have migrated to the SEC or Big 10
Posted by Grillades
Member since Nov 2009
551 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:23 am to
"The ACC is clearly going to die at some point like the PAC-12 is now."

The ACC schools are worried about staying competitive in 2-5 years. They still have time to work things out and execute a long-term plan. The PAC schools are facing unemployment in less than one year. The desperation level for each of those conferences is quite different. The PAC is either going to jump at whatever horrible TV deal they can get then add more crappy teams or they are going to completely disband. The ACC is nowhere near that state right now.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring, though?
Posted by bah7tea
Member since May 2015
97 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:24 am to
Everything I've seen says a majority to dissolve the conference and thusly the grant of rights. But yes, ultimately the governing documents control.
Posted by New Money
Athens, GA
Member since Jun 2023
1193 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:25 am to
Why do "we" want to destroy the ACC?
Posted by Arksulli
Fayetteville
Member since Aug 2014
25176 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:26 am to
quote:

WE don't need anything.


If we aggressively loot the ACC, and we could if we really wanted to, what would actually get? The various North Carolina teams are sort of inter connected. Everyone talks about the Virginia market but Virginia and VA. Tech haven't been big draws in quite some time.

Do we really need Miami and FSU? Don't we pretty well have the state of Georgia covered with, well, Georgia? Bringing Georgia Tech back in would be like going all in on getting Tulane back in the SEC. What would we gain?

If the Big 10 wants to pick the bones of the ACC I say we let them. I suspect that the logistics of having to fly teams from one coast to the other, particularly for secondary or tertiary sports is going to get darn expensive, even with their great new contract.

By all means, let Miami fly up to Wisconsin to play a game in November. Or Rutgers fly their basketball team out to Los Angeles.

It isn't like tallywhackers folks... bigger is not necessarily better.
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
4184 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:28 am to
quote:

The SEC needs to be proactive to get the most choice ACC teams or else the Big 10 will. If the Big 10 gets an exclusive foothold in Virginia and North Carolina it's Appomattox Part 2.


You misunderstand. I don't think the SEC really wants or needs any additional teams.

You seem to think that if the big 10 goes to 20 teams, the SEC has to follow suit. I don't. I think that would reduce the amount of money each SEC team could make and I think that's what drives their decision making.

Expansion when A&M and Mizzou came in was about markets. The last round was about blue bloods.

There aren't any blue bloods outside of the SEC/Big 10 aside from Notre Dame. Markets aren't driving TV deals now. There has to be a financial reason for the SEC to add anyone. Nobody has voiced any numbers showing why there is a reason right now.

There IS a reason for the Big 10, because they broadcast their games through the big 10 network that their conference owns. They get more games to broadcast by adding teams.

The SEC doesn't own their own network. ESPN broadcasts their games, and since they already own ACC games. They pay less per game for ACC games than they do for SEC games. They aren't going to pay more for that product if they don't have to. Adding those teams won't mean more money for the SEC as they're set up now.

While the SEC may want to mimic the Big 10 and own their own network, if they do that can't happen until 2034. The SEC doesn't want to hasten the ACC demise... they want to delay it, even if they want to expand and create a self owned SEC network.
Posted by SneezyBeltranIsHere
Member since Jul 2021
2437 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:29 am to
quote:

BUT, if a majority of teams agree to disband, then there is no exit fee.


If it doesn't say this in the contract, then it isn't true.
Posted by bah7tea
Member since May 2015
97 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 11:40 am to
>There has to be a financial reason for the SEC to add anyone.

For ESPN to sign off, yes. I think the SEC's interests slightly diverge from ESPN's here. ESPN wants more money. Check, easy to understand. The SEC wants that too, but there's more.

Does the SEC want a richer, 20+ team conference dictating terms (taking pole position for TV contracts, tilting playoff terms this way or that) to it? Probably not. Definitely not.

If adding FSU/UNC/DUKE/UVA (or whatever combination) essentially treads water financially (existing teams see no financial loss or gain), then it's probably worth it to do.

And hey, ESPN might see a chance to shift valuable teams to the SEC and shed dead weight in the ACC, shed production costs for two networks, etc.
Posted by twk
Wichita Falls, Texas
Member since Jul 2011
2115 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

Everything I've seen says a majority to dissolve the conference and thusly the grant of rights. But yes, ultimately the governing documents control.
I've read the ACC governing documents (constitution and bylaws). They are silent on the subject, so you would default to the law of the state of incorporation (which I believe is North Carolina) as to what is required for dissolution. In most states, it is some kind of super majority, either 2/3 or 3/4.
Posted by bah7tea
Member since May 2015
97 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 1:07 pm to
This made me go look. If this defaults to NC law, then Section 55A-14-01 states that dissolution requires approval by:

(1) By the board;
(2) By the members entitled to vote thereon, if any, by two-thirds of the votes cast or a majority of the votes entitled to be cast on the plan of dissolution, whichever is less; and
(3) In writing by any person or persons whose approval is required by a provision of the articles of incorporation authorized by G.S. 55A-10-30 for an amendment to the articles of incorporation or bylaws.

The ACC has a "board" per subsection (1) that is comprised of the 15 schools presidents and chancellors. LINK
The ACC Constitution has rules for a quorum for the Board on certain topics, but the ACC Constitution is silent on dissolution. LINK This could be the sticking point.
Assuming every member gets a vote, then 8/15 schools meets subsection (2).
Subsection (3) appears to be related to a third party approval, if spelled out in the articles of incorporation, which I don't think the ACC would have.

So it very well may be possible to blow everything up with 8/15 schools.
Posted by DawginSC
Member since Aug 2022
4184 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 1:25 pm to
quote:

For ESPN to sign off, yes. I think the SEC's interests slightly diverge from ESPN's here. ESPN wants more money. Check, easy to understand. The SEC wants that too, but there's more.

Does the SEC want a richer, 20+ team conference dictating terms (taking pole position for TV contracts, tilting playoff terms this way or that) to it? Probably not. Definitely not.


None of the teams discussed have an impact in terms of dictating terms. The reality is there are somewhere between 10-20 teams that as a group have enough impact to help dictate terms for college football.

As of right now, all of them aside from Notre Dame are already in the SEC or Big 10.

Adding Duke or UNC or Clemson or FSU doesn't give the SEC any more power in terms of negotiation. They are good teams, but not meaningful enough to move the needle.

Texas and OU? They move the needle. So does USC (which is why the Big 10 expanded to get them).

As for ESPN, they have locked in the ACC games at a very cheap price until 2036. That provides content they can use to fill air times on their multiple channels to fill time around the SEC games at more prime hours. It's tough to imagine a scenario where they want to lose those cheap games and have to pay more for SEC games with the new teams and potentially pay the same for the fill in ACC games with worse teams because 2025 prices are higher than the rates they locked in in 2016.

The SEC/ESPN contract ends in 2034. The ACC GOR ends in 2036. That's the timeframe where something might happen. Not now.
Posted by SOSFAN
Blythewood
Member since Jun 2018
12172 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 1:31 pm to
For all intent and purpose the ACC is already destroyed. We don't need to do anything. Leave them to their own misery.
This post was edited on 8/3/23 at 1:32 pm
Posted by bah7tea
Member since May 2015
97 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 1:38 pm to
>They are good teams, but not meaningful enough to move the needle.

They might be the difference between a 24 team BIG negotiating with a 16 team SEC for Playoff slots/arrangements, as opposed to a 20 team BIG versus a 20 team SEC. If you're a TV network, would you rather pair with a 24 team, coast to coast league or a 16 team league that's confined to one corner of the country?

> potentially pay the same for the fill in ACC games with worse teams because 2025 prices are higher than the rates they locked in in 2016.

The ACC won't exist in this scenario. Even with the cheap ACC contract, ESPN may come out ahead if it can move four teams over to the SEC, drop the ACC deadweight, drop costs associated with the ACCN, and also block the BIG out of VA and NC and the South altogether.
Posted by Cocotheape
Member since Aug 2015
3782 posts
Posted on 8/3/23 at 1:46 pm to
It’s amusing to see FSU scream and cry with very few reasonable ways out of their current situation.

FSU withering on the ACC vine is great for Auburn, Alabama, LSU and UF. If the B1G wants to throw them a lifeline, so be it.
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