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re: Finebaum: Arky was 3rd Choice for SEC Expansion
Posted on 1/18/16 at 4:52 pm to Roses of Crimson
Posted on 1/18/16 at 4:52 pm to Roses of Crimson
quote:
I did know Arkie was way down the list.
You dont know shite gump. Trust me.
1
Posted on 1/18/16 at 4:53 pm to undecided
quote:
Finebaum: Arky was 3rd Choice for SEC Expansio
By Paul Finebaum
on April 27, 2010 at 6:01 AM
124 shares
Paul Finebaum composite April 27 2010.jpgView full size(Press-Register Illustration/Brian Lyman)The University of Texas came very close to joining the SEC, according to former commissioner Harvey Schiller.
As the landscape of college athletics continues to rattle with the looming prospects of major conference realignment, Harvey Schiller was recently recalling what might have been.
From 1986-89, Schiller was the commissioner of the SEC. Light years ahead of his contemporaries, Schiller helped to spectacularly alter the direction of the SEC by moving toward expansion and a championship game in football.
In a recent interview, Schiller reflected back on how Arkansas and South Carolina became the 11th and 12th schools in the league. But the most shocking revelation concerned how close the University of Texas came to joining the SEC.
Schiller, who left the SEC to become the executive director of the United States Olympic Committee and would later serve as president of Turner Sports and CEO of YankeeNets (going from working for Ted Turner to George Steinbrenner), said Texas had virtually agreed to become an SEC member. Arkansas and Texas would join the SEC from the Western side and South Carolina and either Florida State, Miami or Virginia Tech would enter from the East.
Paul Finebaum Column Head
"The one that made the most sense was Texas," Schiller said. "I spent some time with DeLoss Dodds (the Texas athletic director) and he really wanted to join the conference."
Done deal. Everything agreed to but the name on the dotted line. Then, it all came apart.
"The state legislature (in Texas) somehow got wind of it through Texas A&M and said we had to bring in both schools or we couldn't take Texas," Schiller said.
The SEC didn't want A&M. Ultimately, the two Texas schools would leave the Southwest Conference and join the Big 12.
The scramble on the other side of the league was just as furious. Schiller remembers Vince Dooley of Georgia was pushing for Georgia Tech. At Florida, officials were pushing for FSU and Miami.
"They felt it was the only way to control recruiting," Schiller said. "We liked Miami, but passed because they didn't have a complete commitment to all their programs. Tulane was passed for the same reasons."
Schiller, who lives in New York and is the chairman and CEO of GlobalOptions Group, an integrated risk management firm, said Virginia Tech simply wasn't a good fit from a geographic standpoint.
Schiller was personally high on Florida State, but left for the USOC before the deal could be consummated. In July of 1990, Arkansas ended its 76-year affiliation with the Southwest Conference to join the SEC. South Carolina would join a few weeks later, but only after a heated courtship pitting the ACC vs. the SEC for Florida State. To this day, many still blame Roy Kramer, Schiller's successor, for blowing the talks with FSU.
As for Schiller, he was not around to see his expansion efforts come to fruition, but it was definitely his baby, even though most in the media today continue to give Kramer all of the credit.
As with the league's title game, which remains one of college sports' most prized jewels, it was all Schiller.
Schiller remembers sitting around one day with one of his assistants, Mark Womack, now the league's executive associate commissioner. He was looking at the NCAA rule book and the idea was born.
"You know, Mark," Schiller said, "we can have a football championship.'" "What you mean?" Womack responded. "I'm looking at a rule book and it says if you have more than 10 institutions, you can effectively have a championship in any sport," Schiller said.
Somehow, Walter Byers, the dogmatic head of the NCAA, caught wind and immediately called Schiller in Birmingham.
"He said, 'what the heck are you doing?'" Schiller said, remembering the fiery conversation. "That (rule) was not meant for you," Byers told Schiller. "It was meant for hockey, volleyball and soccer (and smaller leagues) where they have 12 or 14 or 16 schools."
"But that's not what the rule books says," fired back Schiller, a former combat pilot in Vietnam who later attained the rank in the Air Force of Brigadier General. Schiller once headed the chemistry department at the Air Force Academy and holds a doctorate in the subject.
Schiller said the conversation deteriorated from there, with Byers "calling me an SOB."
"You're not going to do it," Byers demanded.
Oh yes we are, Schiller responded.
In 1992, the SEC made history by holding its inaugural championship game.
"de Tocqueville said the revolution only tells you something that already took place," Schiller said.
Schiller's words spoke volumes about his extraordinary tenure as the SEC commissioner more than 20 years ago. But it may also be applicable to current landscape of college athletics as well.
What will happen over these next few months remains a mystery. However, there is no mystery about the vision employed more than 20 years ago by Harvey Schiller, and how the SEC is still reaping dividends from his genius even today.
https://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2010/04/finebaum_how_texas_nearly_join.html
Posted on 1/18/16 at 4:59 pm to undecided
Watching Finebaum was your first mistake.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 5:09 pm to undecided
Not sure Arkansas can really feel insulted by this. It's like saying Arkansas is the third choice for the ACC after Florida and Bama. Rating obviously more-prominent programs ahead of them simply isn't a slam on Arkansas' quality. Hell, being third behind those two is a compliment given how many others would have been on the wish list.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 5:13 pm to Hawgeye
quote:
That's backwards from anything I've ever heard. I was always told it was Arkansas and FSU...FSU didn't wanna so then it was USCe
From what I've read, Arky received the first invite and accepted. The Texas legislature wouldn't allow Texas or A&M to leave the SWC at that time. FSU was approached but Bowden was frank in stating how tough the SEC was, as well as the administration being concerned 'bout contentious relations between FSU and UF. I think Miami was approached but they felt their students were more aligned with those in the Big East and also thought that would be better for their basketball team. SCe had already voted to accept if invited and ended up getting the second invite. Don't know if that's exactly how it played out, but that's pretty much what I recall of the article I read...
Posted on 1/18/16 at 5:23 pm to NYCAuburn
quote:
The magic 12th school would not come from the State of Texas. Although Texas and Texas A&M were on the SEC’s original expansion wish list, politics made either a non-starter. With Arkansas’ likely departure, the SWC would collapse without its two biggest Texas schools. That was unpalatable to Texas legislators — many of whom were alumni of the other five SWC members — and Texas and A&M were publicly threatened with retaliation if they left. Eventually, the SWC did dissolve, with most of the Texas schools merging with the Big Eight into the Big 12.
Of course Fbaum provided no context with his statements but this makes sense. Baylor has only recently become relevant in football but I'd imagine they would have gone the way of Rice without the Big 12. It makes sense that the other Texas schools put pressure.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 5:50 pm to undecided
I'm glad A&M is in the SEC. They are good people and a good fit.
But they are as far west as the SEC should go.
Look towards the east for expansion.
But they are as far west as the SEC should go.
Look towards the east for expansion.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 6:02 pm to greenfin
good for the sec ... do not want those arrogant asses from austin ...
Posted on 1/18/16 at 6:03 pm to tiderider
quote:
good for the sec ... do not want those arrogant asses from austin ...
People on the rant seem to complain about A&M all the time but Texas would be 100x worst
Posted on 1/18/16 at 6:04 pm to undecided
Finebaum is the rush limbaugh of sporting news. I think he's just trying to get more arkansas callers to chime in on his show.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 6:12 pm to undecided
Texas wasn't a possibility. This is the lie that "t-shirt" fans have been telling over the last couple of years once A&M left for the SEC and ESPN eats that garbage up as usual.
Texas wanted and still wants to go to the PAC. Texas A&M wanted to leave for the SEC. The concern was not over Texas or Texas A&M being left, but the rest of the Texas-based SWC teams (Baylor, TCU, Houston, Rice, SMU, and Texas Tech).
Texas wanted and still wants to go to the PAC. Texas A&M wanted to leave for the SEC. The concern was not over Texas or Texas A&M being left, but the rest of the Texas-based SWC teams (Baylor, TCU, Houston, Rice, SMU, and Texas Tech).
Posted on 1/18/16 at 6:23 pm to hogminer
quote:
Arkie was way down the list
Oh, I'm sure. We were a top 10 football program, had the number 1 ranked BB program, a very good
baseball program, and the beginning of a track dynasty that has won 42 national championships. We were probably waaaaaay down on the list.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 6:59 pm to randomways
quote:
Not sure Arkansas can really feel insulted by this. It's like saying Arkansas is the third choice for the ACC after Florida and Bama. Rating obviously more-prominent programs ahead of them simply isn't a slam on Arkansas' quality. Hell, being third behind those two is a compliment given how many others would have been on the wish list.
this is why the troll backfired. Of course Texas and Florida State would be more desirable. Population alone give them an obvious advantage, nothing to be ashamed of being 3rd behind them in pecking order.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:42 pm to CockInYourEar
quote:
SC was coming regardless of the others. clemson also had an invite, but like fsu, they got cold feet. Now they wish they were in the SEC and you can find their fans on these SEC boards.
I doubt that. They got to play in the NC and certainly had a chance to beat Alabama. I seriously doubt they would have that opportunity if they were in the SEC.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:45 pm to undecided
So you think Finebaum is credible?
Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:49 pm to Pettifogger
Yeah, that's what I meant. I didn't know the particulars of the whole deal.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:49 pm to OldPete
This entire article is a bunch of horse shite.
He left out an important detail that because of poitics at that time, Texas and Texas A&M weren't going anywhere without taking Baylor along.
Texas may have gone to the PAC but no way they had interest in the SEC. Finebaum is trolling.
The reason A&M was able to join the SEC independently is because the Governor in 2011 was an Aggie and the Texas Legislature was not in session.
As it was Baylor still threatened to sue.
He left out an important detail that because of poitics at that time, Texas and Texas A&M weren't going anywhere without taking Baylor along.
Texas may have gone to the PAC but no way they had interest in the SEC. Finebaum is trolling.
The reason A&M was able to join the SEC independently is because the Governor in 2011 was an Aggie and the Texas Legislature was not in session.
As it was Baylor still threatened to sue.
This post was edited on 1/18/16 at 7:55 pm
Posted on 1/18/16 at 7:55 pm to undecided
So instead of taking Texas and getting stuck with the Aggies, we end up with Arkansas then and now the Aggies and fricking Mizzou.
That backfired.
That backfired.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 8:07 pm to undecided
quote:
Texas was required by legislature to bring Aggie
That's a damn silly lie, but the legion of frick-ups on this site will probably slurp it up.
Posted on 1/18/16 at 8:09 pm to undecided
I haven't read this thread and am only going off my recollection of the time.
1. I don't think Finebaum really knows what happened, because it happened before he was a big star. He's received a lot of good information since, but I've also heard him say things that were not true about it.
2. The original plan was to add 4 teams. I don't know if Arkansas was one of them, but I suspect we were. I know LSU's AD sponsored Arkansas and that may have been the event that started it all, but I'm not sure.
1. I don't think Finebaum really knows what happened, because it happened before he was a big star. He's received a lot of good information since, but I've also heard him say things that were not true about it.
2. The original plan was to add 4 teams. I don't know if Arkansas was one of them, but I suspect we were. I know LSU's AD sponsored Arkansas and that may have been the event that started it all, but I'm not sure.
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