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re: Did Bear Bryant stack the deck for Alabama?
Posted on 5/7/14 at 8:36 pm to Crimson Legend
Posted on 5/7/14 at 8:36 pm to Crimson Legend
quote:You cant be serious. Every thread Alabama fans have about Auburn is to explain away their success. Their lucky, remember
we never start threads trying to explain away auburn's success
Anywho, just thought it was an interesting subject
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Posted on 5/7/14 at 8:39 pm to ChexMix
They WERE lucky. 
But none of us have to try to explain why their sec title shouldn't count. I never want them to win, but I don't feel so insecure that I have to try to find a reason that they didn't deserve the 2010 title, or the 2013 SEC championship. But there are pages and pages dedicated to all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to discredit everything we do.
And it does nothing but remind the world who is the daddy around here.
But none of us have to try to explain why their sec title shouldn't count. I never want them to win, but I don't feel so insecure that I have to try to find a reason that they didn't deserve the 2010 title, or the 2013 SEC championship. But there are pages and pages dedicated to all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to discredit everything we do.
And it does nothing but remind the world who is the daddy around here.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 8:41 pm to ChexMix
quote:Such a sad little boy.
ChexMix
Posted on 5/7/14 at 8:49 pm to ChexMix
Nothing that Bryant did was against the rules. It was accepted policy at the time. He was just better than everyone else at doing it.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 8:52 pm to pvilleguru
quote:
pvilleguru
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:26 pm to kudzoo
quote:
Oh yeah, he was also 4-1-1 against LSU while the HC at KEN-FRICKING-TUCKY.
Never knew that. Damn. At Kentucky.
Posted on 5/7/14 at 10:39 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
quote:
In 1972 Alabama played 8 games while many teams only played 7, but LSU, Tennessee and Vandy only played 6. Anyone could have played 8 if they had wanted to. Or 9, for that matter.
never knew this. That's some crazy arse scheduling. There is no doubt that Bama has had preferential treatment in league scheduling the last few years. But I don't see how scheduling like what you referenced would have benefited anyone.
1972 SEC football standings
Conf Overall
Team W L T W L T
#7 Alabama † 7–1–0; 10–2–0
#5 Auburn 6–1–0; 10–1–0
#11 LSU 4–1–1; 9–2–1
#8 Tennessee 4–2–0; 10–2–0
Georgia 4–3–0; 7–4–0
Florida 3–3–1; 5–5–1
Ole Miss 2–5–0; 5–5–0
Kentucky 2–5–0; 3–8–0
Mississippi State 1–6–0; 4–7–0
Vanderbilt 0–6–0; 3–8–0
† – Conference champion
Rankings from AP Poll
Posted on 5/8/14 at 12:14 am to ChexMix
quote:
In 1961, Alabama finished with 7-0, LSU 6-0, and Ole Miss 5-1 in conference play. Both Alabama and LSU claim championships. Alabama did not schedule either LSU or Ole Miss during season. In 1965, Alabama finished 6-1-1 and Auburn finished 4-1-1 during conference play. Alabama claims the conference title and won the head to head with Auburn during the season. In 1972, a year where Auburn finished the regular season 9-1 with a win over Alabama in the Iron Bowl, Alabama was crowned the SEC Champion with a 10-1 record due to the additional SEC game they played, despite losing to their rival. In 1977, Alabama finished the season 7-0 while Kentucky finished the season 6-0. Alabama claims the conference title due to the additional conference game. Kentucky is not recognized as a co-champion
SEC Championship are not "claimed" as national titles are. They are a real thing recognized and handed out by the conference.
Pre the championship game, the SEC title was awarded solely based on win %.
That's why undefeated teams are considered co.
In 1977 Kentucky was on probation, that's why they're not champs.
The extra game helped you if you won it, but crippled you if you lost it.
The SEC officially standardized the conference schedules in the 60's and some teams would independetly schedule additional SEC games on their own. They counted in the standings, however in the late 70's the SEC voted to change that.
quote:
Prior to the 1980 season, the SEC presidents voted that a game scheduled by two SEC teams against one another, but not scheduled by the conference office, would not count in SEC standings thus the Alabama/Ole Miss games in 1980 and 1981 did not count as league games.
This post was edited on 5/8/14 at 12:19 am
Posted on 5/8/14 at 12:20 am to IAmReality
quote:Then how do you explain LSU and Alabama both being co champions even though Alabama had one more win?
SEC Championship are not "claimed" as national titles are
Then in 1972, Auburn won the head to head and had the same record, minus the addition SEC game that Alabama had, and only Alabama is recognized as conference champions. Care to take a guess as to why?
Posted on 5/8/14 at 12:23 am to ChexMix
7-0 Win %? 1.00
6-0 Win %? 1.00
Same win %, therefore co champions.
7-1 Win %? .875
6-1 Win %? .857
7-1 team has a better win %, therefore they are champs.
WOW It's like all math and stuff.
6-0 Win %? 1.00
Same win %, therefore co champions.
7-1 Win %? .875
6-1 Win %? .857
7-1 team has a better win %, therefore they are champs.
WOW It's like all math and stuff.
Posted on 5/8/14 at 12:34 am to IAmReality
quote:So the additional game won Alabama a conference title. Sucks for Auburn. They won it on the field and still got left out. Per the norm
7-1 team has a better win %, therefore they are champs
Posted on 5/8/14 at 12:39 am to ChexMix
There were no such things as tiebreakers pre the SEC championship. Alabama would have been co-champs along with Auburn.
In 1988 LSU and Auburn both finished 6-1 and are recognized as co champs even though LSU beat Auburn.
Win % was the only metric used. This was necessary as many teams did not play each other, or played different number of games, and there were ties back then as well which had to be accounted for.
It could easily work against you though, Alabama lost that extra game in 76 costing them a share of the title that year.
It's all a moot point now, as the SEC did away with the practice over 30 freaking years ago.
Heck, even to this day the practice still exist. Two teams finishing with the same record in the division are considered "co" division champs by the SEC even if one beat the other. The tiebreaker is applied to see who will get the chance to go to the SEC title game and play for the championship.
Most people roll their eyes at these co-division champs nonsense, myself included, but that's just what the SEC (and the other conferences with division) does.
In 1988 LSU and Auburn both finished 6-1 and are recognized as co champs even though LSU beat Auburn.
Win % was the only metric used. This was necessary as many teams did not play each other, or played different number of games, and there were ties back then as well which had to be accounted for.
It could easily work against you though, Alabama lost that extra game in 76 costing them a share of the title that year.
It's all a moot point now, as the SEC did away with the practice over 30 freaking years ago.
Heck, even to this day the practice still exist. Two teams finishing with the same record in the division are considered "co" division champs by the SEC even if one beat the other. The tiebreaker is applied to see who will get the chance to go to the SEC title game and play for the championship.
Most people roll their eyes at these co-division champs nonsense, myself included, but that's just what the SEC (and the other conferences with division) does.
This post was edited on 5/8/14 at 12:44 am
Posted on 5/8/14 at 12:51 am to IAmReality
Just goes to show how retarded the system was set up back then
Nowadays, there are scholarship limitations and fair scheduling. Heck, even probation doesnt disqualify teams from being conference champions now. How the times have changed
Nowadays, there are scholarship limitations and fair scheduling. Heck, even probation doesnt disqualify teams from being conference champions now. How the times have changed
Posted on 5/8/14 at 1:22 am to ChexMix
Post-season probation still prevents being conference champion.
Ask Ohio State and USC, two the more recent examples.
If your on probation but still eligible for the post season you're fine though.
Ask Ohio State and USC, two the more recent examples.
If your on probation but still eligible for the post season you're fine though.
This post was edited on 5/8/14 at 1:23 am
Posted on 5/8/14 at 2:54 am to ChexMix
What was the difference between '77 and '61??
Another scheduling ploy by the bare. Cholly Mac tried for years to get the LSU/bama game moved from the saturday after LSU/olemiss to another date. bare wouldn't hear any of it. He said he had LSU right where he wanted them. The week after their biggest rival at that time.
Another scheduling ploy by the bare. Cholly Mac tried for years to get the LSU/bama game moved from the saturday after LSU/olemiss to another date. bare wouldn't hear any of it. He said he had LSU right where he wanted them. The week after their biggest rival at that time.
Posted on 5/8/14 at 6:19 am to ChexMix
Scholarship limitations changed: Yes
Scheduling rules changed: Yes
Probation rules changed: Yes
So, according to your argument, Alabama should have been dethroned as King of the SEC since those bogus rules have all been changed, and that's the only way they were winning. So I'm sure that's what happened, right? I mean, it must be, because otherwise you'd just look like a dumbass.
Scheduling rules changed: Yes
Probation rules changed: Yes
So, according to your argument, Alabama should have been dethroned as King of the SEC since those bogus rules have all been changed, and that's the only way they were winning. So I'm sure that's what happened, right? I mean, it must be, because otherwise you'd just look like a dumbass.
Posted on 5/8/14 at 6:36 am to ChexMix
quote:
So the additional game won Alabama a conference title. Sucks for Auburn. They won it on the field and still got left out. Per the norm
Feels right to me.
Posted on 5/8/14 at 6:51 am to TheTideMustRoll
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Since saban's been at bama, auburn and LSU have as many conference titles as the tide.
How does that make them king of the SEC?
Since saban's been at bama, auburn and LSU have as many conference titles as the tide.
How does that make them king of the SEC?
Posted on 5/8/14 at 7:19 am to tigerfan in bamaland
quote:Ask Charley McClendon.
Who's Bear Bryant?
Posted on 5/8/14 at 7:28 am to constant cough
It was Bear Bryant's job to stack the deck for Alabama while he was the coach. If he did good for him.
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