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re: 14 team SEC is unsustainable. SEC Needs to get to 16 now.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:21 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:21 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:the'd probably still be called divisions, I just prefer to call them something else for now to differentiate the system.
...can't we still call them divisions, like in the NFL?
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Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:23 pm to baytiger
How many expansion threads do we have with how many people that don't understand expansion at all? If the SEC expands it will be to increase the value of the SEC so here are a few guidelines:
1. No expansion in current SEC states. It's all about the SEC Network and double counting a state only costs money. So forget about Clemson, FSU, Miami, GT, or any Texas school. It's just not happening. It also eliminates OU because OU comes with OSU.
2. Academics matter. That is why WVU is in the Big 12 and not the SEC or ACC or Big 1G.
In the end that really simplifies things. The only logical adds for the SEC are a NC school and a Virginia school. So here is how those schools rank:
North Carolina-Easily the most attractive. Great overall AD. Elite academics. True Flagship school of NC. Have the resources to be a football power if they get it together as well.
UVA-Outside of football history they are a home run. Elite academics and the true flagship of Virginia. In the discussion for most prestigious public universities. Pretty solid overall AD as well.
VTech-Nice backup school to UVA. Solid football rep but would likely struggle in the SEC. They are average/below average in terms of resources by SEC standards and at some point Beamer is going to retire. Great cultural fit. Good academics but not AAU.
NC State-Mediocre across the board and controlled by UNC quite literally. Haven't won the ACC since '79 so I don't know how anyone thinks they will ever compete in the SEC.
Duke-Small private basketball school with great academics. Not happening.
Wake-Lesser version of Duke.
I think what happens is Slive waits for the Big 12 to get FSU or Clemson to panic and go to the Big 12 and then he swoops in and grabs UNC and UVA/VT. It's really the only move that makes sense.
1. No expansion in current SEC states. It's all about the SEC Network and double counting a state only costs money. So forget about Clemson, FSU, Miami, GT, or any Texas school. It's just not happening. It also eliminates OU because OU comes with OSU.
2. Academics matter. That is why WVU is in the Big 12 and not the SEC or ACC or Big 1G.
In the end that really simplifies things. The only logical adds for the SEC are a NC school and a Virginia school. So here is how those schools rank:
North Carolina-Easily the most attractive. Great overall AD. Elite academics. True Flagship school of NC. Have the resources to be a football power if they get it together as well.
UVA-Outside of football history they are a home run. Elite academics and the true flagship of Virginia. In the discussion for most prestigious public universities. Pretty solid overall AD as well.
VTech-Nice backup school to UVA. Solid football rep but would likely struggle in the SEC. They are average/below average in terms of resources by SEC standards and at some point Beamer is going to retire. Great cultural fit. Good academics but not AAU.
NC State-Mediocre across the board and controlled by UNC quite literally. Haven't won the ACC since '79 so I don't know how anyone thinks they will ever compete in the SEC.
Duke-Small private basketball school with great academics. Not happening.
Wake-Lesser version of Duke.
I think what happens is Slive waits for the Big 12 to get FSU or Clemson to panic and go to the Big 12 and then he swoops in and grabs UNC and UVA/VT. It's really the only move that makes sense.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:24 pm to baytiger
FSU and Clemson will be vetoed by UF and USC as they don't want an in-state rival to become a member and dilute their recruiting advantage. That'll also be vetoed by anyone with any sense, because it doesn't expand the footprint.
Re: The Footprint
Slive's agenda #1 is the SEC Network. The way conference networks work is: you get paid one of two carriage fees.
The MUCH larger carriage fee is a per houshold rate for everyone in a state with an SEC school who has the TV package that includes the "sports package" that the SEC Network will be in.
The other MUCH lower rate is for all other states. Conference networks get paid based on footprint: not on whether or not they actually *deliver* a certain market.
Adding FSU and Clemson only dilutes the footprint we already have. What Slive and everyone with sense wants is NEW STATES.
Which NEW STATES (ie new higher carriage-rate paying households) both have high populations AND geographic continuity? North Carolina and Virgina. End of story. It's either both of UNC and NCState, if they can't be broken up due to politics, or it's two of these four: NCState, UNC, UVA, VaTech. Those are the only schools that make sense.
Re: The Footprint
Slive's agenda #1 is the SEC Network. The way conference networks work is: you get paid one of two carriage fees.
The MUCH larger carriage fee is a per houshold rate for everyone in a state with an SEC school who has the TV package that includes the "sports package" that the SEC Network will be in.
The other MUCH lower rate is for all other states. Conference networks get paid based on footprint: not on whether or not they actually *deliver* a certain market.
Adding FSU and Clemson only dilutes the footprint we already have. What Slive and everyone with sense wants is NEW STATES.
Which NEW STATES (ie new higher carriage-rate paying households) both have high populations AND geographic continuity? North Carolina and Virgina. End of story. It's either both of UNC and NCState, if they can't be broken up due to politics, or it's two of these four: NCState, UNC, UVA, VaTech. Those are the only schools that make sense.
This post was edited on 11/19/12 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:27 pm to Clay Davis
We need Mizzou to add some acedemic class to the conference and not just have Vandy and Florida be the two leaders.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:29 pm to blacknblu
quote:
I will never, ever (never ever) concede that Baltimore is "Southern"
Neither will I, but go to the North and ask a real Yankee about Baltimore. They'll say it's The South. Not to the south, but The South.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:30 pm to maine82
quote:
Ideally, in my view, we take North Carolina State (Raleigh-Durham metro) and Oklahoma State (outskirts of Oklahoma City metro.)
You've never been to Oklahoma. Also they are staying with OU. That's laughable to think otherwise.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:30 pm to Cooter Davenport
quote:
Neither will I, but go to the North and ask a real Yankee about Baltimore. They'll say it's The South. Not to the south, but The South.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:31 pm to Duzz
quote:
We need Mizzou to add some acedemic class to the conference and not just have Vandy, Texas A&M and Florida be the two leaders.
FIFY.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:33 pm to aggressor
quote:
aggressor
Good post.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:34 pm to blacknblu
It's weird, I agree. But that view is pervasive up there. I told a native New Yorker living in Baltimore that, to a Texan or a Southerner (not the same thing), Baltimore is a northeastern city - essentialy: Yankeeland - and he thought I was crazy. To him, he was living in the South. He even said "now that I live in The South" and was not joking.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:37 pm to aggressor
quote:
with how many people that don't understand expansion at all? If the SEC expands it will be to increase the value of the SEC so here are a few guidelines: 1. No expansion in current SEC states. It's all about the SEC Network and double counting a state only costs money. So forget about Clemson, FSU, Miami, GT, or any Texas school. It's just not happening.
So basically you're saying that we can't just say what teams we would like to see join the conference? We have to adhere to some guidelines in order to formulate an opinion?
fricking thought police.
How about this, what if the actual consumers of the product had some say in what the product would be?
THERE'S a novel idea. It seems more and more we are being told what to want.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:40 pm to blacknblu
This would infuriate southern stalwarts but if we really wanted to go crazy, we could extend a bid to Cincinnati. They're only an hour and a half north of Lexington, Kentucky. Pretty good football tradition and very good basketball tradition.
Grabbing them would be a lot easier than trying to pry VA Tech from VA, OK State from OK or UNC from Duke, and we enter Ohio. I'm sure Cincinnati would love to leave the Big East. Couple that with entering the Raleigh-Durham market through NC State and that's not a bad haul.
Grabbing them would be a lot easier than trying to pry VA Tech from VA, OK State from OK or UNC from Duke, and we enter Ohio. I'm sure Cincinnati would love to leave the Big East. Couple that with entering the Raleigh-Durham market through NC State and that's not a bad haul.
This post was edited on 11/19/12 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:40 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
We need Mizzou to add some acedemic class to the conference and not just have Vandy, Texas A&M and Florida be the two leaders.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FIFY.
That's why he left A&M out, y'all can't count.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:43 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:quote:FIFY
just have Vandy, Texas A&M and Florida be the two leaders.
an academic leader should be able to count
but seriously, the more I think about UVA and UNC the more I like them.. the question would be getting UNC to part with NC State and Duke.
And after all the wrangling UVA did to get VT into the ACC in the first place, would they bolt?
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:43 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
So basically you're saying that we can't just say what teams we would like to see join the conference?
You can say whatever you want but unless you follow the NEW STATES guidelines your statement isn't worth discussing.
The SEC Network is driving the train. Dream all you want of FSUs and Clemsons, but teams in North Carolina and Virginia are by far the most likely targets for the SEC Network and therefore the SEC.
quote:
How about this, what if the actual consumers of the product had some say in what the product would be?
I don't know what you are talking about, but it must not be the SEC. Fans only have one roll in expansion- demand the SEC Network once it hits.
This post was edited on 11/19/12 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:48 pm to Cooter Davenport
quote:
Neither will I, but go to the North and ask a real Yankee about Baltimore. They'll say it's The South. Not to the south, but The South.
This is due to History of it being a Slave State thus being in The South
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:48 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
How about this, what if the actual consumers of the product had some say in what the product would be?
THERE'S a novel idea. It seems more and more we are being told what to want.
That's what happens when you vote in a liberal. You a communist?
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:49 pm to baytiger
All about tv. A team from North Carolina, a team from Virginia with Mizzou moving to the West.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:51 pm to baytiger
If we go to pods, would y'all be in favor of eliminating all permanent cross-pod rivals? you could have a 9 game schedule, play every team in your pod and 2/4 teams in other pods. Home-home with the other 6 over 2 years, then play the other 6 in the conference home and home over 2 years. That keeps the concept of a more unified league. Of course you'd have to be delicate with who you put in what pod to maintain the most vital rivalries, but I think this is the best option.
Posted on 11/19/12 at 12:52 pm to baytiger
Could you imagine UK vs UNC in SEC basketball?
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