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OT: Redrawing boundaries for a greater St. Louis
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:25 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:25 pm
Mainly wanting to get some feedback from fellow St. Louisans.
Article on Stltoday about changing the city-county relationship and consolidating cities for a better St. Louis.
"Nobody — absolutely nobody — would design St. Louis today with 90 cities, two counties, 82 municipal courts, and 58 police departments. It simply wouldn’t happen. So why do we put up with it when all the evidence says it is costing us in so many ways?"
LINK
Article on Stltoday about changing the city-county relationship and consolidating cities for a better St. Louis.
"Nobody — absolutely nobody — would design St. Louis today with 90 cities, two counties, 82 municipal courts, and 58 police departments. It simply wouldn’t happen. So why do we put up with it when all the evidence says it is costing us in so many ways?"
LINK
4
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:28 pm to hipgnosis
We need some realignment.
Once the incentive of having your own city government is gone (much of which could happen with the passing of the bill maxing out city revenue from court money at 10% of the budget), it could help speed this process up.
What doesn't need to happen is a system where the county is drawn into the political sewer that is the city and is drug down with it.
Once the incentive of having your own city government is gone (much of which could happen with the passing of the bill maxing out city revenue from court money at 10% of the budget), it could help speed this process up.
What doesn't need to happen is a system where the county is drawn into the political sewer that is the city and is drug down with it.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:29 pm to the808bass
quote:
We need some realignment.
Agree
quote:
Once the incentive of having your own city government is gone (much of which could happen with the passing of the bill maxing out city revenue from court money at 10% of the budget), it could help speed this process up.
Agree
quote:
What doesn't need to happen is a system where the county is drawn into the political sewer that is the city and is drug down with it.
And agree again.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:40 pm to hipgnosis
That article talked about it in very general terms with little talk of the details of what they'd propose, what the impact of those proposals would be and so forth.
In a general sense, I absolutely agree that some reorganizing and redrawing needs to be done. Exactly what or how I'm not sure I've heard any great plans.
In a general sense, I absolutely agree that some reorganizing and redrawing needs to be done. Exactly what or how I'm not sure I've heard any great plans.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:52 pm to hipgnosis
Would probably make sense if some of the suburban areas consolidated. I don't know much of the politics of STL, but I sincerely doubt any of the more affluent areas are going to want to combine with the city or any of the smaller lower income/high crime towns to subsidize their issues with the nicer towns tax dollars.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:53 pm to reedus23
My biggest issue when Slay and Dooley were "talking" about city county merger was the hard line seemingly taken by the city in that the city would "lead" the process. It cost Dooley the election.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 6:54 pm to Mizzeaux
No they won't and that's why the County and City will never merge. Not unless downtown sees a sudden influx of money.
Posted on 3/28/15 at 6:25 am to reedus23
Here's the rub. Let's say city A owes $14 trillion in unfunded pensions. Does city B say...SURE, just bring your debt and all those past bad decisions because we are all one big happy family? Who's going to pay?
The problem is voters. The uniformed and non-voting taxpayer, to be exact. These municipalities love to build super nice buildings, have huge departments of employees and amenities (monuments) which promote their power and status.
Here in OFallon, police dept. says it's space is too small. (It's not.) City goes to taxpayers for MORE TAX to build for police. Voters say NO! Now, city does what it wants and buys expensive piece of land for police without vote. Now the city wants us to vote for increased tax to build on that land. Classic government b*llsh*t!
The problem is voters. The uniformed and non-voting taxpayer, to be exact. These municipalities love to build super nice buildings, have huge departments of employees and amenities (monuments) which promote their power and status.
Here in OFallon, police dept. says it's space is too small. (It's not.) City goes to taxpayers for MORE TAX to build for police. Voters say NO! Now, city does what it wants and buys expensive piece of land for police without vote. Now the city wants us to vote for increased tax to build on that land. Classic government b*llsh*t!
Posted on 3/28/15 at 8:12 am to hipgnosis
Redrawing boundaries isn't going to cure what's wrong with St. Louis.
It's no exaggeration to say the first 10 minutes of the local news is spent running down that day's murders, shootings, drive-by's, beatings, grand theft auto's, high speed pursuits and smash and grabs. It's become a daily assault to the senses. A significant percentage of an entire generation of 15-25 year olds has been lost. No moral compass whatever.
How this is impacting business and tourism can only be guessed at, but what informed person in their right mind would want to relocate, relocate a business or spend a vacation visiting St. Louis right now? Or at any time in the foreseeable future? I live here and have no desire to ever set foot in the city or North County again. I will of course, but there will always be the lingering thought, "Will tonight be the night random violence will happen to or around us?"
Hopefully there are local leaders who can turn this around. It's happened in New York City and elsewhere, but given the breadth and depth of the problems I have my doubts.
Posted on 3/28/15 at 10:00 am to Mizz-SEC
Mizz-SEC, sir you are spot-on. Well said. Yep, that Ferguson bull attracted a boat-load of jobs for StL.
When we were 15-25 y/o, you fought with your fists. Most fights were just a shoving match. Today, punks just shoot.
When we were 15-25 y/o, you fought with your fists. Most fights were just a shoving match. Today, punks just shoot.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 8:33 am to Mizz-SEC
Yep. An imaginary "line" isn't going to stop criminals.
Cities and counties will always compete to bring businesses into their district. Tax credits are the only thing going for them in some areas.
I honestly hate all the violence getting news coverage in St. Louis area. It looks bad on the entire state. Good luck St. Louisians.
quote:
Would probably make sense if some of the suburban areas consolidated. I don't know much of the politics of STL, but I sincerely doubt any of the more affluent areas are going to want to combine with the city or any of the smaller lower income/high crime towns to subsidize their issues with the nicer towns tax dollars
Cities and counties will always compete to bring businesses into their district. Tax credits are the only thing going for them in some areas.
I honestly hate all the violence getting news coverage in St. Louis area. It looks bad on the entire state. Good luck St. Louisians.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 11:21 am to 5thTiger
This town has been dying since I got here in 1983. Too much "old money", not enough "new money". That is, Old Money doesn't generate jobs, just nice family wealth from stock sales. New Money, the Googles, Microsofts, etc., hardly anywhere to be found.
The City and County will never merge. They should, but won't ever happen.
All the money is in the County. The County fiefdoms (towns) don't really care about bringing in national business, or talent. They are more focused on stealing that from the fiefdom next door.
The City relies on an old antiquated Earnings Tax that everybody runs from, including potential business interest and homeowners.
I liked what Gene McNary tried to do. I small step, but even that failed. He tried to get The County fiefdoms to pair up and merge. So instead of 90 cities, we'd have @ 45. Problem was, as soon as one mayor figured out the other mayor would probably beat him in the merged town election, all work towards that would stop.
The City and County will never merge. They should, but won't ever happen.
All the money is in the County. The County fiefdoms (towns) don't really care about bringing in national business, or talent. They are more focused on stealing that from the fiefdom next door.
The City relies on an old antiquated Earnings Tax that everybody runs from, including potential business interest and homeowners.
I liked what Gene McNary tried to do. I small step, but even that failed. He tried to get The County fiefdoms to pair up and merge. So instead of 90 cities, we'd have @ 45. Problem was, as soon as one mayor figured out the other mayor would probably beat him in the merged town election, all work towards that would stop.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 12:42 pm to Stlox
This is yet another great Stl idea that will never be implemented.
St. Louis has a long standing tradition of talking about problems and doing absolutely nothing. The number of studies on how to improve downtown and the region that were sponsored and paid for by the city and/or the regional growth association that were never acted on are numerous. Thee problem is trying to get all the municipalities on board and think as a region.
You're right about the mayors and their cronies that would be faced with running against someone else. These corrupt municipalities have payoffs in place with local building and electrical inspectors and many others who gouge people in the name of permits. Combining all of these municipalities is the fix to save millions upon millions, but it would need their support which is not going to happen.
St. Louis has a long standing tradition of talking about problems and doing absolutely nothing. The number of studies on how to improve downtown and the region that were sponsored and paid for by the city and/or the regional growth association that were never acted on are numerous. Thee problem is trying to get all the municipalities on board and think as a region.
You're right about the mayors and their cronies that would be faced with running against someone else. These corrupt municipalities have payoffs in place with local building and electrical inspectors and many others who gouge people in the name of permits. Combining all of these municipalities is the fix to save millions upon millions, but it would need their support which is not going to happen.
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